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  • Ryukama
    Ryukama closed this thread because:
    01:20, October 1, 2017

    I wanted to see some opinions for a Yin-Yarn feat I found that knowing the trend of attempted Kirby upgrades will probobly be proven useless.

    So just before the FINAL BOSS Yin-Yarn warps the space around him within moments as seen from 0:14 - 0:19 but we don't see it's full effect until after his fight. At 8:10 - 8:20 you can see the same circle pattern as before but now we see that it stretches and connects all the way to Patch Land which is portrayed as a alternate dimension. This leaves me to believe that he had fused the two universes together and if this is the case then it definitely could be a universe level upgrade for the verse. 

    That being said I would like some more thoughts on this so if you think of anything to say or ask about this than please do so.

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    • Also it is important to note that Patch Land's dimension is shown to be at least galaxy size as seen HERE from 2:57 - 3:05 and possibly multi-galaxy sized as seen HERE from 3:00 - 4:00 as there are many spirals that seem to be reprisentory of galaxys in the background.

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    • I'd like some more input here as well

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    • Cal needs to see thi

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    • Inb4 Azzy shows up and debunks it again

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    • Js250476 wrote: Inb4 Azzy shows up and debunks it again

      More than most likely.

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    • Kirby, resisting pocket realm manipulation since 2004.

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    • I get that you’re trying to make a joke but the thing is there's not really any pocket realms involved.

      Well at least not for the parts I’m talking about...Sorry if I just ruined your fun there.

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    • So we just waiting on Cal and Azzy?

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    • Yeah pretty much. If it takes a while then I will bump it when necessary. If it takes even longer I’ll message them directly.

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    • Does Cal know about this?

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    • Not yet.

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    • >Not yet

      Oh he knows, he's not gonna skip over a Kirby upgrade thread.

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    • He is probably observing in silence...

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    • Eficiente wrote: He is probably observing in silence...

      It’s like he’s stalking me (SHUDDERS).

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    • Don't worry man I got your back in case anything happens

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    • Fusing universes together is 2-C, iirc

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    • I don't really see anything that suggests he merged two entire universes together. That seems like a presuptuous and super highballed interpretation of a vague sequence of events.

      So this local space in the background he warped can now let people travel to an alternate dimension? Why wouldn't that just be portal creation then?

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    • @JustSomeWeirdo you will provoke Azzy's wrath.

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    • >That seems like a presuptuous and super highballed interpretation of a vague sequence of events.

      All of Kirby's universal feats, basically.

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    • Is this still upgrade worthy at all tho?

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    • I'll wait until Azzy debunks comments on this before making any conclusions. I don't see anything upgrade worthy so far personally though.

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    • Could Cal comment here still tho? I think his opinion is worth hearing

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    • @Ryu Because you can physically see the space between the two is directly connected there’s no portal involved in fact there’s a completely separate portal that allows you to travel between the two so making another would be unnecessary in the first place.

      Also I don’t see how this is any more unclear then saying Dark Nebula destroyed enough of a galaxy so that all you could see was another galaxy.

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    • JustSomeWeirdo wrote: Fusing universes together is 2-C, iirc

      Really? Judging by profiles I’ve seen I thought it was considered 3-A.

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    • Well, I suppose if space time isn't involved it would be 2x baseline universal

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    • Makes sense two universes being 2 times universal

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    • So character warps the background of the game, then later we see a "circle pattern" that leads to a supposed "alternate dimension". I'm sorry but I still don't see extrapolating a two universes got merged together feat. If we can see an area in the background that leads to a location that isn't normally accessable, the much more reasonable thing to do is assume there's a portal there. And why would the fact that it's "not necessary to create a portal" be relevent when it's not even necessary to merge two universes in the first place?

      I'm not sure of the context of the Dark Nebula theme. And honestly I don't see why it's "destroying so much of a galaxy another galaxy can now be visible" and not a simple background change or teleportation. Though I trust Azzy and Cal's judgement on that.

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    • That doesn’t change the fact that there is definitely not a porno there if you look at the scene.

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    • I mean id think not, it IS Kirby after all.

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    • Cumberjung wrote:
      That doesn’t change the fact that there is definitely not a porno there if you look at the scene.

      I mean it's a Kirby game. I didn't think there would be...

      But in all seriousness that doesn't mean that these vague sequence of events is two universes merging together. If you want to extrapolate that warped space in the background as that, then one can easily just assume that this "circle pattern" is just a simple portal that leads to the next world.

      EDIT: Dammit J-Man ninja'd my joke.

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    • Dark Nebula creates a flash of light, we can now see a Galaxy in the background, but then there's also the part of the ground where they're fighting being a different color (Changing from red to blue), this also dealing no damage to Kirby whatsoever as he's unfazed

      I'm honestly not so certain about that feat

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    • Cumberjung wrote: That doesn’t change the fact that there is definitely not a porno there if you look at the scene.

      This is easily the most awkward typo I’ve ever made.

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    • Yes and you're keeping that typo there.

      Anyway context is important, while I do own epic yarn I never beat it, was magic yarn man trying to fuse the universes? If it was his goal chances are thats whats happening.

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    • Also That would be assuming that the entire background and both worlds in it are in a portal as the circles extend past both Dreamland and Patch Land. Also stylistically it’s completely different from every other portal in the Kirby universe including the one we know is in that game. It simply doesn’t make sense for it to be one and the other option is sowing to universes together like fabric somthing that would make more sense for him to do.

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    • Again I'll just have Azzy come over here and evaluate. But I still don't see anything in those clips that suggests that 2 universes got merged together. And that saying that a portal or some sort of wormhole was made is a much more reasonable assumption for such a vague scene.

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    • @TheJ-ManRequiem Well technically he had zero motive whatsoever to do anything he even states he had no goal in mind.

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    • Well, you said there was a portal in the game already, do you have a clip if It?

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    • It’s a sock 0:55 - 1:10.

      Not only that but he already owns it.

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    • Ryukama wrote: And that saying that a portal or some sort of wormhole was made is a much more reasonable assumption for such a vague scene.

      In my opinion not so much when you bring in the context but you know...OPINIONS.

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    • The only "context" arguments are that "why would he want to create a portal" when there's no reason why he'd merge 2 universes either and this a character that has no motivations for what he does. And the arguments of "but these circles look different than another portal" and "it doesn't make sense for the portal to work that way" which don't nearly stack up to how nonsensical something like the merging of 2 universes in this matter would be logic wise.

      Character changes the background behind him, then we see a bunch of circles that lead to a supposed alternate dimension that wasn't accessable before. To me, the more reasonable assumption is that he created a portal/wormhole rather than he merged two universes together and made them into one big universe. 

      That's all I have to say and I'll wait for Azzy to come here now.

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    • You forgot the part where he literally already has a portal hanging around from his neck but yeah I’ll wait to.

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    • Again. "Why would he want to create a portal" and "other portals look different" are irrelevent. Which is what "he already has a portal" falls under.

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    • Not really,I get what you're saying but why make a portal if ya already got one?

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    • And why just fuse 2 universes out of nowhere?

      If the scene has far more evidence/it's less presumptuous to assume he made a portal than he merged 2 universes, then the fact that he wouldn't have a logical reason to do it doesn't matter. Just because he has no reason to do it doesn't mean he didn't if the evidence points to him doing that. Especially since he has no reason to merge 2 universes either and it's just been admitted that he has no motivations for doing any of what he does.

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    • Maybe so but he actually has literally zero reason to make a portal.

      He already has one why make another? It makes no sense, maybe he wanted to overlap worlds or something who knows but making a portal when ya got one is redundant and pointless.

      I'm not arguing for the upgrade I'm just pointing out why portal creation is questionable.

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    • Imagine if the person tried to argue for an upgrade and I kept saying "Yes but why would he want to fuse 2 universes? He has no reason at all to do so!". What would someone supporting the upgrade might say? Maybe that "it doesn't matter if he doesn't have a reason to fuse 2 universes because that's clearly what he did." or "just because it makes no sense for him to have done it doesn't mean that he didn't do the thing that doesn't make sense".

      That's exactly what I'm saying. If the evidence points to him making a portal/wormhole, the mere fact that he doesn't have a reason to do it is irrelevent. Just like how the fact that he has no reason to fuse 2 universes doesn't immediately discreadit this. This point only becomes more so considering that this is a character who has no motivations for anything as well.

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    • You can look at his creation of it it’s a wave that expands threw space not something you go threw and the physical appearance is that of two bits of space being sowed together and again in front of the circle pattern you see everything from buildings to clouds to planets so he would’ve had to create a portal around all of that which would also imply of the portal goes further than patch land and plus portal creation is such a random power for him to have when the other option is once again him sowing universes together which is much more thematic to his character.

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    • Again, you have no place to say "it doesn't make sense for this portal to work this way" when it makes absolutely no sense for him to merge 2 universes into 1 universe instantly with no collateral damage to anything within these worlds like said clouds or buildings or the ground and what not. 

      That's the thing. Literally everything you use to go against the portal argument can be used against this 2 universe assumption. "He has no reason to make a portal" and he also has no reason to fuse 2 universes into one big universe. "It's illogical for the portal to work this way" and it's also illogical for the fusion of 2 universes to work this way,

      What does it matter if it's a "random power" if that's what he demonstrates? Just being able to inexplicably fuse universes in such a way is pretty random too. 

      Also merely breaking the boundary that separates two dimensions so they can be accessed is not the same as taking to entire universes and mashing them together to create one brand new universe. Or else Gotenks also has a universal feat.

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    • Ryukama wrote: Imagine if the person tried to argue for an upgrade and I kept saying "Yes but why would he want to fuse 2 universes? He has no reason at all to do so!". What would someone supporting the upgrade might say? Maybe that "it doesn't matter if he doesn't have a reason to fuse 2 universes because that's clearly what he did." or "just because it makes no sense for him to have done it doesn't mean that he didn't do the thing that doesn't make sense".

      That's exactly what I'm saying. If the evidence points to him making a portal/wormhole, the mere fact that he doesn't have a reason to do it is irrelevent. Just like how the fact that he has no reason to fuse 2 universes doesn't immediately discreadit this. This point only becomes more so considering that this is a character who has no motivations for anything as well.

      I have yet to see you point out any evidence of him creating a portal other than swirly patterns also him having lack of motivation also could be used to support my argument.

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    • It’s not like you have been using multiple arguments pretty much every argument you said is that it also doesn’t make sense for him to fuse universes and that it could be a portal instead.

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    • "I have yet to see you point out any evidence of him creating a portal other than swirly patterns"

      I have yet to see you point out any evidence that he fused two universes together besides the mere fact that there are circles in the sky that connect to another area. Which again can just as easily be assumed to ne a new wormhole, which is the more reasonable assumption in such a case.

      "also him having lack of motivation also could be used to support my argument."

      My point is your double standards. Him making a wormhole is instantly discredited because he has no motivations to do so. Yet him fusing 2 universes together to create one bigger universe is supported because he has no motivations to do so.

      "It’s not like you have been using multiple arguments pretty much every argument you said is that it also doesn’t make sense for him to fuse universes and that it could be a portal instead."

      No. My point is that there is no evidence that he fused 2 universes together to create one bigger universe as opposed to him creating a portal. When there are two assumptions to a feat with equal evidence supporting them, we always go with the lower assumption in such a case. You're the one going "it doesn't make sense for him to make a wormhole" which I'm pointing out can be said for him fusing 2 universes together to create one bigger universe as well.

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    • Because It appears that this is happening more than anything else to me but if you want me to dig for more info I will try just give me a few minutes to do so.

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    • You have to bring more evidence, context, statements, etc. than just "it looks this way to me".

      If you, Azzy or anyone else can bring any of that then I will very happily concede with my tail between my legs supporting this upgrade. I care about accurate profiles not about being right or keeping a glass ceiling up for Kirby being higher than 4-A.

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    • I came back with little but here at 9:35 and onwards you can see Patch land in dreamlands sky despite not being there originally which is the very least says it wasn’t a portal connecting the two because it’s just the vastness of space behind it now but it’s still there.

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    • Is there even evidence that Patch Land is an alternate universe/dimension? If it's supposedly so clearly visible in all these instances. The Kirby Wiki even states that Patch Land is "a planet within viewing distance of Dreamland".

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    • Well at no other point do you see Patch Land in Dreamlands sky despite how big it is shown in that scene nor can you see Dreamland from Patch Land ever dispite literally going around the entire planet plus Kirby still needs a portal to travel between the two dispite the fact he should easily be able to fly there if it was so close to Dreamland. Honestly the “planet within viewing distance” thing really only applies to that one scene.

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    • So we don't even know where Patch Land is located? Then why assume it's an entirely different universe? Especially when it's shown as and referred to a planet.

      Most of the time you can't see other planets of the solar system in the sky but under special conditions you can. Does that mean these planets are or are in different universes?

      Kirby needs a portal to get there or a portal is the only way in the game he gets there? Because those two are different.

      And even then wouldn't Kirby needing a portal to fly to another planet nearby just be PIS/a low end for Kirby's speed? Not proof that this planet actually is an entire other universe despite that never being stated and the fact we can clearly see it as a planet in the sky so this is means that Yin-Yarn's feat is 3-A?

      I'm sorry but it seems this supposed feat is getting worse and worse. I'll still keep an open mind and see what Azzy says though.

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    • Planets get big but not that big plus it’s even put in the story that he needs to use the sock to go there and a low end for Kirby speed well no offense but that just seems kind of ridiculous to me.

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    • A planet being visible at some times and not visible at others =/= the planet is in another universes. Maybe Mars doesn't appear "as big" IRL as this planet did in the game. But the point still stands.

      And no offense, but assuming that the feat is 2 universes being fused together into one and that Patch Land which has never been stated or shown to be a universe or in another universes is very, very ridiculous to me.

      I never said Kirby's speed is that low. But PIS and low ends exist. If Kirby truly needed a portal to get to a planet that is near by or visible from Popstar, that's a PIS low end for Kirby's speed. Not proof that the planet is in another universe and that this makes Yin-Yarn's feat 3-A.

      So let me get this straight. There are no statements that Patch Land is in another universe and we can clearly see Patch Land within Popstar's sky. But we're going to base all our profiles now off the assumption that it's still in another universe anyways. This because Kirby needs a portal to get there and the planet isn't always visible in the sky. I'm sorry but do you seriously not see anything wrong with that?

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    • Ok while in my mind I still agree with this being a valid feat I can tell when the wikis logic overrules me and I can respect that also attempting to argue my point any longer honestly would be really bad for my emotional state so this will be my goodbye to this thread.

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    • No worries. It's just a simple debate over how powerful game characters are. There's no need to feel emotionally distraught over something unimportant like this.

      And nobody here dislikes you or holds anything against you at all. We're all friends here :)

      I'm sorry if I've done anything to make you upset. Thanks for being respectful. 

      I guess I'll close this and then Azzy can reopen it if he has anything he wants to say in support of the upgrade.

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