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  • RadicalMrR
    RadicalMrR closed this thread because:
    http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:840561
    22:50, July 23, 2017
    • Wow

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    • lol

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    • Lmao.

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    • D5d
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    • Lol

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    • Wow manga became even more shit

      Zamasu pulled a meta Cooler.

      And Toyotaro fucking destroyed Zamasu character!

      Zamasu ran away like a bitch when Zeno showed up. Come on, first you ruined Hit's character, then Black and now fusion Zamasu.

      Still can't understand ahy people loke that shit.

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    • Zamasu ran away when Zeno showed up? Good, that's the only reaction he should have tbh.

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    • I sorta of agree with u @Hit. The manga had an ass pull form with no build up (MSSB), a character using an attack he has no right using (Hakai) and plot holes about Zamasu (The time ring and potara contradict each others rules) but people arent chastising it nearly as much as the anime.

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    • Sure anime isn't a masterpiece either and has messed up powerscaling. But at least it making good character development and character are more refined and better there.

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    • I have a feeling Jiren will be a bitch too in manga.

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    • Hit The Badass wrote: I have a feeling Jiren will be a birch too in manga.

      Nah, I think he'll be an oak. ovo

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    • But his character will be butchered by Toyo one way or another

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    • Pretty much everyone's scared of Zen'ō. I don't see why Zamasu being is that big of a deal.

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    • So Zamasu didn't turn into Immortal Soul Zamasu yet?.

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      So Zamasu didn't turn into Immortal Soul Zamasu yet?.

      The army of Fusion Zamasu is the Immortal Soul Zamasu of the Manga.

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    • Whaaaaat?... How did this happen?

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    • The manga's really gone downhill since the start of the Future Trunks Saga, it seems.

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      Whaaaaat?... How did this happen?

      His Regeneration is the focus in the manga, so that being said the slightest piece of him will reform into a full on Merged Zamasu, which in turn leads to the mangas version of Infinite Zamasu.

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    • Shock97 wrote: His Regeneration is the focus in the manga, so that being said the slightest piece of him will reform into a full on Merged Zamasu.

      And he hasn't bodied Goku and the others because...

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:

      Shock97 wrote: His Regeneration is the focus in the manga, so that being said the slightest piece of him will reform into a full on Merged Zamasu.

      And he hasn't bodied Goku and the others because...

      As Infinite Zamasu or before that?

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    • The manga's interpretation of the FTA went to absolute shit after Black and Zamasu fused.

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    • When he splits into multiple Merged Zamasu's how come they didn't bum rush Goku and the others, was it because of Mastered Super Saiyan Blue?.

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      When he splits into multiple Merged Zamasu's how come they didn't bum rush Goku and the others, was it because of Mastered Super Saiyan Blue?.

      I'm unlcear of the full context at the moment from the leaks I saw.

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    • @Shock97 no problem then.

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    • Ryukama wrote: Pretty much everyone's scared of Zen'ō. I don't see why Zamasu being is that big of a deal.

      Hit isn't

      Goku isn't

      Frieza isn't

      And I am sure Jiren isn't too.

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    • Yeah Hit's scared of Champa instead :)

      Goku technically ran away from Zen'ō as well when he was blasting his attack to Zamasu. Goku is casual around Zen'ō due to his naivety and their sort of friendship but he's still scared of his power.

      Frieza thinks he'll one day surpass Zen'ō, but he's still scared to step up to him as of now.

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    • Ryukama wrote: Yeah Hit's scared of Champa instead :)

      Goku technically ran away from Zen'ō as well when he was blasting his attack to Zamasu. Goku is casual around Zen'ō since their sort of friends but he's still scared of his power.

      Frieza thinks he'll one day surpass Zen'ō, but he's still scared to step up to him as of now.

      Yeah and tried to fight him. But sure man whatever blows your skirts off ;)

      And get killed for nothing? Sure man nice everyone likes to get killed for nothing.

      He isn't scared at all.

      Lol all of these guys are clearly not afraid of Zeno but they recognize the difference in power.

      But hey in your fanfics, everyone is afraid of Zeno :)

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    • When did Hit try to fight him? He just stood there grunting and explicitly said Zen'ō saved his life by interfering.

      Exactly. Goku doesn't want to get killed by Zen'ō and panickingly runs away from his attack. You don't run away from someone screaming if you aren't scared of them. Or else I guess manga Zamasu isn't scared of him either now. I guess Zamasu "just didn't want to get killed for nothing" and that's why he ran away as well.

      I never said everyone is. But most people in the series definitely are. He's as we know by far the strongest character in the series. Nobody wants to provoke him into destroying them and will obey all his orders to appease him. They're all scared of what he can do to them in some way or another.

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    • Ryukama wrote: When did Hit try to fight him? He just stood there grunting and explicitly said Zen'ō saved his life by interfering.

      Exactly. Goku doesn't want to get killed by Zen'ō and panickingly runs away from his attack. You don't run away from someone screaming if you aren't scared of them. Or else I guess manga Zamasu isn't scared of him either now. I guess Zamasu "just didn't want to get killed for nothing" and that's why he ran away as well.

      I never said everyone is. But most people in the series definitely are. He's as we know by far the strongest character in the series. Nobody wants to provoke him into destroying them and will obey all his orders to appease him. They're all scared of what he can do to them in some way or another.

      Hahaha. Your fanfics are really funny, i will give you that. What else Hit did? started crying when Goku went Kk or hide behind Vados? Lmao.

      You are one funny guy with amazing fanfics.

      Either way Hit didn't say anything about Zeno saving him. In fact, when Champa was going to erase them, Hit calmy said "I assumed I would come to this" and readied himself to fight Champa.

      Not to mention, unlike other contestants and Gods, he call Zeno by his name instead of adding 'sama'. Same goes when he addresses Champa. He clearly isn't afraid of them.

      But hey kudos to you, trying to make your fanfics almost canon ;D

      Lol and that's where Zamasu's personality died in manga. In anime, he did not care who Zeno who was.

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    • I mean they know that Zen'o could erase them, but they don't shit their pants like GoD's do. Look at Goku he does know that Zen'o could erase him but nevertheless he still managed to befriend him. 

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    • I'd appreciate it if you stopped being so condescending and insulting.

      Either way Hit did not try to fight Champa. He readied for Champa to attack but there wasn't a fight attempt between them. And Hit states that Zen'ō's interferance saved his life. Would Hit have been willing to fight Champa (and lose badly) if things escalated? Sure.

      Also love how you just ignored everything I said just to call it fanfic. Why is Zamasu running away from Zen'ō screaming to avoid getting killed from him a sign of being scared? Yet Goku running away from Zen'ō screaming to avoid getting killed from him isn't?

      Just because Goku is friendly towards Zen'ō and a bit casual when they talk, does not mean he isn't also scared of him. Especially when Zen'ō is no longer being friendly with Goku.

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    • Everyone (except Grand Preist from what is shown) are legit scared of Zeno's power but some look past that (Goku, Frieza) but you know for sure they would be scared if they had to step into the ring with him.

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    • Byakuya "Senbonzakura" Kuchiki wrote:
      I mean they know that Zen'o could erase them, but they don't shit their pants like GoD's do.

      And being scared of someone doesn't mean you shit your pants everytime you encounter them. You don't need to have cartoonish mental breakdowns around someone to still be intimidated of their power and what they can do to you if you don't appease them.

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      Everyone (except Grand Preist from what is shown) are legit scared of Zeno's power but some look past that (Goku, Frieza) but you know for sure they would be scared if they had to step into the ring with him.

      This exactly.

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    • I mean you can take it like a boss anyway. Like Sidra did when he got erased. Also I have a feeling that the Grand Priest have something in his sleeves to overthrow Zen'o. 

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    • Well this is getting off topic. Basically my point from the beginning is that Zen'ō is currently the most powerful character in the series by a massive margin.

      Most people who encounter him, including the toughest, bravest and biggest badasses in the show are scared of him.

      And when you see what Zen'ō is capable of, this fear is completely understandable.

      So Zamasu also being scared of this guy doesn't diminish his character in my personal opinion.

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    • Proof that Hit said that Zeno saved his life by interfering?

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    • Well I don't read the manga but he was right to run because he new he would lose. In the anime Future Zeno doesn't get out much apparently as he didn't know what Black and Zamasu where doing so of course he wouldn't care who Zeno was and when Zeno did show up he was Immortal Soul Zamasu who had no intelligence so he didn't care.

      Manga Zamasu in my opinion did the smartest thing in his life

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    • https://www5.animesubhd.net/watch/episode/subbed/dragon-ball-super-episode-41/

      Around 3 minute mark.

      Right as Champa flies away to consult Zen'ō.

      Cabba: Were we saved?

      Hit: Looks like it.

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    • And?

      The point was if Hit was afraid of Champa. And he wasn't.

      If anything this proves that Champa is stronger and Hit was going to fight him regardless.

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    • Don't backpedal now.

      "Either way Hit didn't say anything about Zeno saving him."

      "Proof that Hit said that Zeno saved his life by interfering?"

      You claimed that Hit never said he was saved from Champa and asked me to prove that he did. I gave proof and your claim was wrong.

      I was messing around with the Hit being scared of Champa comment mainly (hence the smiley face), until you made false claims about Hit trying to fight Champa and him never saying he got saved from Champa. But either way I already said that Hit would be willing to fight Champa a while back.

      "Would Hit have been willing to fight Champa (and lose badly) if things escalated? Sure."

      So there's nothing more to be discussed here really.

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      @Shock97 no problem then.

      Okay so initially when there are 10 Merged Zamasus they do in-fact rush Goku and Co, but they escape with the Kais teleportation. The massive army does a slow advance towards Goku and Vegeta, who both are prepared to fight, then Goku presses the Zeno button.

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    • So what do you guys think Jiren is thinking while he's standing there and not moving?

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      So what do you guys think Jiren is thinking while he's standing there and not moving?

      "Damn Toppo's looking thicc in that Pride Trooper uniform..."

      O V O

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    • Ryukama wrote: "Damn Toppo's looking thicc in that Pride Trooper uniform..."

      O V O

      LOL!!!!😂😂😂😂

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote: So what do you guys think Jiren is thinking while he's standing there and not moving?

      Here I am....Saving my Universe....fighting that long haired Saiyan....

      Any second now....Fighting Goku....I'mmmmmmm committed...

      BTW that's an UBW abridged reference

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    • Shock97 wrote:

      LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      @Shock97 no problem then.

      Okay so initially when there are 10 Merged Zamasus they do in-fact rush Goku and Co, but they escape with the Kais teleportation. The massive army does a slow advance towards Goku and Vegeta, who both are prepared to fight, then Goku presses the Zeno button.

      Ok thanks.

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    • Huuuuuuuuuuuuup, missed this thread opening. What happened?

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    • 10 fusion Zamasu's.....Did he summon them on his own power?

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    • "Damn Toppo's looking thicc in that Pride Trooper uniform..."

      O V O

      Lol Toppo skipped leg day

      O V O O V O 

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    • RadicalMrR wrote:
      I sorta of agree with u @Hit. The manga had an ass pull form with no build up (MSSB), a character using an attack he has no right using (Hakai) and plot holes about Zamasu (The time ring and potara contradict each others rules) but people arent chastising it nearly as much as the anime.

      I'm still curious how Goku's gonna get this new limit breaker form out of nowhere when we've seen what he's been up to every second before the tournament

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    • Uh...Kaioken times infinity? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    • Cant wait fot episode 101. The spoiler said Goku will team up with Caulifla and Kale to fight 5 of the pride troopers, including the General.

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    • Why do people keep assuming he gets a new form? The poster just had Super Saiyan blue Kaioken the hair only looked black because of the lighting if you look at the top of the spikes on his hair you can still see the blue.

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    • How else is he going to get stronger?

      I just pray Caulifla doesn't get SSB soon....

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    • Honest question guys which do you prefer manga or the anime?

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    • Anime.

      Manga destroyed Hit's character, Black's character, Zamasu's characters. ZERO character development. Zero tension.

      Imo, manga is trash.

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    • I haven't read the manga at all. But what exactly did they do to Hit, Black and Zamasu?

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    • Hits just weaker then he is in the anime that's all but I don't know the difference of Black and Zamasu.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote: I haven't read the manga at all. But what exactly did they do to Hit, Black and Zamasu?

      Hit is weak as hell in manga. Then he has that cocky attitude and smile he never had in anime. And the fact he has hands in pocket becuz he is afraid someone will read his moments. What a dumb excuse.

      In manga, Goku never even met Zamasu or had a fight with him to make him hate Goku. Nor any solid reason why he hates mortals. He seems to just hate them. Like a psychopath that's all.

      Same goes for Black. And Fusion Zamasu running away like a bitch

      Anime is really bettwr in making those character cool and have better personalities and stories.

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    • Not even i remembered that....although im not that suprised considering that they actually remembered the Mafuba and brought back the Kaioken.

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    • Well I'll just explain it like this.

      Power levels

      Anime Hit: Fought SSBKK x10 Goku and was still improving.

      Manga Hit: Barely able to keep up with SSG Goku at Full Power which only last for a minute also can't improve like his anime self.

      Anime Future Trunks: SS2 Future Trunks was weaker than SS3 Goku. Also has SS Rage.

      Manga Future Trunks: SS2 Future Trunks is stronger than SS3 Goku forced him to go SSG. Is also somehow a Kai apprentice.

      Anime Future Zamasu: Temporarily fought SSB Goku on equal footings.

      Manga Future Zamasu: Goku stated that he was weaker than Future Trunks.

      Anime Goku Black: Strongest mortal in Dragon Ball Super at that time. Fought both SSB Goku and Vegeta at the same time. Instant improvement.

      Manga Goku Black: Defeated by SSG Vegeta sudden SSB transformation 1 on 1. Improves much slower compared to his anime self.

      Anime Fusion Zamasu: Fought Vegito Blue on almost equal footings.

      Manga Fusion Zamasu: Weaker than Vegito in base form. Base Vegito literally blew half his body away before even eating a Sensu Bean to regain his stamina to go SSB

      Anime Goku: Has the kaioken but is still weaker than Fusion Zamasu when he gets serious.

      Manga Goku: Pulled a Mastered SSB out of nowhere and was around as strong as manga Fusion Zamasu. Also has Hakai.

      Anime Zeno: Destroyed all the universes in the Future Trunks timeline.

      Manga Zeno: Completely destroyed the entire timeline.

      I'll explain personality description and story difference when I get back.

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    • How is Manga MZ weaker than Base Vegito? Vegito turned Blue right away.

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    • Derpmaster9000 wrote:
      Honest question guys which do you prefer manga or the anime?

      Manga. The anime has golden episodes here and there (so very few, I can recall them out of 100 episodes) but most of the time episodes lean on the mediocre side. The manga at the very least has decent writing and feels like a much more cohesive and structured story consistently. You see this primarily in the little story elements Toyo adds here and there such as details with Universe 12, Beerus and Champa backstory, and some of the more interesting changes Toyo does with the script. His version of the Universe 6 Saga was somehow more enjoyable than the anime's version for me beyond Goku vs Hit. Speaking of changes I don't mind the differences in personality for characters, considering if the manga was ahead of the anime one could argue the "anime" changed characters. Sure the FT Arc has debatable developments within the story, but I chalk that up to the arc being a difficult story to tell anyways. 

      All in all if it wasn't for the manga I probably wouldn't keep up with Super outside of Youtubing a few fights here and there. Toyo at least cares for the franchise beyond lets milk this again and you can feel that in the writing. He does however need to cut down on the homages.

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    • The anime is better. Instead of giving us Vegito trashing his opponent for the second time the anime made him struggle, considering he was the strongest DB character for nearly 20 years its easy to see why it was a sight to behold.

      Rather then stacking bs power ups on Goku the anime gave them to Trunks, in turn, making him a relevant character in his own arc. In the manga Trunks played support distracting Zamasu and healing Goku. When people look back at memorable moments in DBS will they think "Yeah Trunks doing nothing in the final fight in his own arc was genius" or "Trunks and Vegeta teaming up to launch a Galink Gun, showing how far Vegeta has come as a character"

      The manga wrecked Zamasu's character and with that gone the best thing about the arc didnt exist. The manga had Zamasu watch a godtube video and and just go "Yeah, i wanna steal that guys body and kill all mortals with it" while in the anime we got to see step by step Zamasu's slow decent into madness or how Goku's saiyan body corrupted Black actions.

      The manga did BoG and half of the U6 arc though.

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    • If you guys haven't already, checks this guy out https://youtu.be/18_ExME567c , he makes some awesome remixes including some dbs ones

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    • @Pete. You'd like this guy in that case.

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    • Lit, please teach me how to sing like that

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    • I...can't sing ovo

      (Granted, this was like at least a decade ago, but...)

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    • Lol, Cal you look like the love child of drake and some unknown female rapper

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    • And now I got dreads...lol.

      Also, surprised anyone here other than myself listens to Drake XD.

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    • I dabble in his work from time to time

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    • Kudos to you for being cultured then, ovo.

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    • But, i mostly listen to osts reggie and rock....with a sprinkle of hip hop on the side

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    • I'm back now to finish the character personality description and the story differences.

      Character Personality Description

      Anime Frost: Evil asshole that wages war to buy planets at a cheaper price.

      Manga Frost: Only cheated in the tournament because he didn't want to waste time since there was no prize money involved. Not evil.

      Anime Hit: After Goku figures out his time leap he started to improve himself to best Goku without ever losing his composure.

      Manga Hit: After finding out he's weaker than Goku and Vegeta he lost his composure for a while and regained it later.

      Anime Future Trunks: Cried for his timeline that no longer exist.

      Manga Future Trunks: Didn't even bat an eye when when he and Mai were going to another timeline after finding out his timeline is gone.

      Anime Goku Black: Angered at mortals after losing to SS2 Goku. Had a personality mix of Goku and Zamasu leaning more to the side of Goku.

      Manga Goku Black: Got mad at mortals from watching Goku on Godtube. Is literally another Zamasu rants like Zamasu acts like Zamasu and so on so forth.

      I'm gonna go Reread the manga real quick to refresh my memories on the story differences.

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    • So, according to manga chapter 26, Beerus can't kill immortals..

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    • Darkinx wrote:
      So, according to manga chapter 26, Beerus can't kill immortals..

      How Goku's Hakai would work then? So It wouldn't work... 

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    • I'm assuming Goku's hakai would've failer either way. Zamasu would have regenerated from nothing.

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    • Darkinx wrote:
      I'm assuming Goku's hakai would've failer either way. Zamasu would have regenerated from nothing.

      That's what I was thinking. And this makes his immortality quite something. DB nerfs it a lot... 

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    • @RadicalMrR

      I didn't mind the manga having Vegito stomp Merged Zamasu. Vegito is special because of how ridiculously powerful he is, so seeing him casually play around again for the first time in years put a smile on my face. Either way manga or anime his inclusion was just fanservice he should have been more relevant and actually been the one to bring down Zamasu.

      "making him a relevant character in his own arc. In the manga Trunks played support distracting Zamasu and healing Goku. "

      Wouldn't he be relevant then? Before the fusion Zamasu and Black used a simialr strategy to close the gap. Trunks did what he could and providing support is nothing to scoff at the whole reason he went to Goku and Co for help was because he couldn't save his timeline on his own. Him healing also gave the other shin purpose since he acquired the ability from training with them. Besides he still accomplished plenty of stand-out moments, if the concern is no one remembering him doing anything badass in the manga look no further than the panels of him being pragmatic enough to impale Black while he was down and split Merged Zamasu in half when the fusion was having problems.

      The manga did miss out on the chance to portray Zamasus slow decent into madness so I'll agree with that. His characterization in the manga feels slighted.

      I agree

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    • Darkinx wrote:
      So, according to manga chapter 26, Beerus can't kill immortals..

      Do you know what was said?

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    • Darkinx wrote:
      Here it is: http://i.imgur.com/4pf0fas.jpg

      thx. I can't remember do we get clarification in the anime if Hakai can kill immortals?

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    • In the anime Beerus only hakai'd Present Zamasu (who wasn't immortal), saying that his existence would have vanished from every timeline (And it doesn't happen to the Evil Zamasu). So we can say he can't really affect immortals.

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    • Darkinx wrote:
      In the anime Beerus only hakai'd Present Zamasu (who wasn't immortal), saying that his existence would have vanished from every timeline (And it doesn't happen to the Evil Zamasu). So we can say he can't really affect immortals.

      Thx. Also the Viz translation has him just say he can't kill "Gods", which is interesting wording.

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    • Darkinx wrote:
      In the anime Beerus only hakai'd Present Zamasu (who wasn't immortal), saying that his existence would have vanished from every timeline (And it doesn't happen to the Evil Zamasu). So we can say he can't really affect immortals.

      Goku also said that even Beerus can not kill an Immortal like Zamasu in the anime... Beerus didn't deny it...

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    • Shock97 wrote:
      Darkinx wrote:
      In the anime Beerus only hakai'd Present Zamasu (who wasn't immortal), saying that his existence would have vanished from every timeline (And it doesn't happen to the Evil Zamasu). So we can say he can't really affect immortals.
      Thx. Also the Viz translation has him just say he can't kill "Gods", which is interesting wording.

      It's a mistake. They corrected gods with immortals in the latest version

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    • So... I can apparently say this is supporting evidence that Zeno truly did destroy the whole timeline, instead of one universe. Neat.

      Also, Hakai not being able to take down Zamasu? That's some Low-Godly Regeneration right there, unless Hakai as a whole is downgraded in the Manga. 

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    • Giygas3 wrote: Also, Hakai not being able to take down Zamasu? That's some Low-Godly Regeneration right there, unless Hakai as a whole is downgraded in the Manga. 

      Isn't supposed to be Mid-Godly?? I haven't followed the manga much but if Zamasu can return from the Hakai then he would be returning from non-existence unless his soul remained.

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    • Giygas3 wrote:
      So... I can apparently say this is supporting evidence that Zeno truly did destroy the whole timeline, instead of one universe. Neat.

      Also, Hakai not being able to take down Zamasu? That's some Low-Godly Regeneration right there, unless Hakai as a whole is downgraded in the Manga. 

      Beerus's Hakai did not affect Zamasu in the anime as well. There is no downgrade

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    • "Beerus's Hakai did not affect Zamasu in the anime as well. There is no downgrade"

      Oh, I know it's no downgrade. However, Beerus never used Hakai on Future Zamasu. So we never actually knew if his immortality could've survived a Hakai from Beerus, which now we have a statement to support that the Immortality regeneration ranges from Low-Godly, or Mid-Godly. I'm unsure of the latter.

      This would be an upgrade on Future Zamasu regeneration if anything. (I know we don't use the manga, so we probably won't be changing the profile)

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    • I love details like this in the manga. Pilaf is useful, I knew his intellect was high but this is great lol.

      Pilaf
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    • Giygas3 wrote:

      Oh, I know it's no downgrade. However, Beerus never used Hakai on Future Zamasu. So we never actually knew if his immortality could've survived a Hakai from Beerus, which now we have a statement to support that the Immortality regeneration ranges from Low-Godly, or Mid-Godly. I'm unsure of the latter.

      Zamasu will only get godly if he actually regenerates. Beerus being unable to kill Zamasu is not a regeneration feat. 

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    • That makes no sense to me. How else does he survive Hakai aside from Regenerating? Unless you want to tell me he will get erase from his physical and spiritual form, essentially getting his entire existence erase, and still being "alive" without somehow regenerating from it? At that point, you aren't alive.

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    • By resisting existence erasure? Not everybody is vulnerable to existence erasure. By the way, Frieza survived hakai just fine without regenerating in the anime

      To get regeneration, you have to regenerate first

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    • On the contary, he didn't resist it. It worked fine when Goku used it on Fusion Zamasu, but now when Beerus who has full control over it, it magically won't work on him? That still makes no sense to me.

      Goku statement was "Oh, so your technique is great enough to beat an Immortal." Then Beerus responds with "No, I can't an immortal. (There are different translations, but I'm going by Herms translation he made towards it)

      But If you consider getting erase from existence from physical and spirtual form, without being able to regenerate from it and saying he couldn't "beat" him with it. Then I don't know what will.

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    • Once again, you only get regeneration if you regenerate. Neither Beerus nor Goku killed or destroy Fusion Zamasu, and Zamasu didn't regenerate. So he won't get regeneration, low godly that is. I don't see why it's hard to understand

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    • Not only that, wasn't this a manga feat? It wouldn't count either way.

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    • I know it wouldn't, That is why I said we wouldn't count it. But for the manga, and manga only. I'm saying he has pontential Low-Godly Regeneration.

      Then tell me how he doesn't kill him from getting erase to such a degree, and still being considered "alive" when he is clearly shown to be affected by Hakai. I just don't understand how that works, but it's fiction so anything can go. 

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    • All contradictory/alternate from the anime in the manga are invalid anyway, so it doesn't matter. Nor that it would make in much difference if it did since nothing noteworthy happened

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    • Giygas, you need to regenerate to get regeneration. That's it, nothing more or less. I have trouble understanding why you don't understand this. Why do you find it complicated?

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    • Same reason how you're still alive without regenerating. You are destroyed to such a degree, that your very being is erased. How do still consider that being "alive"? I suppose we don't see eye to eye with this, so I'm just going to drop it. Not like it truly matters as you said.

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    • You do know resistances are a thing right?

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    • Again, Zamasu has no resistance against Hakai. Goku was literally about to erase him without using Mai as a shield. This conversation isn't going anywhere either way, so it's best if we drop it.

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    • Giygas3 wrote:
      Same reason how you're still alive without regenerating. You are destroyed to such a degree, that your very being is erased. How do still consider that being "alive"? I suppose we don't see eye to eye with this, so I'm just going to drop it. Not like it truly matters as you said.

      Your definition of regeneration is very unique, I haven't seen anything like this so far online. But what you're saying is not regeneration, it's simply resistance or immunity

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    • Alright, we're getting somewhere now. So I'll give my last take on this. It isn't immunity since he has shown to be affected from it from Goku, In which case, Beerus should have no trouble replicating. He also wasn't shown to be able to resisist it quite well, as he was being force to use someone as a shield. (Why even use someone as a shield if you can survive it? Is beyond me) The only indiction to me is regenerating to stay alive. As that was the main point of his Immortality in the first place, or at least a huge chunk of what made it so potent.

      Either way, It won't be added. So I don't really see a point of discussing it any longer.

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    • Didn't Zamasu regenerate from Goku's Hakai? His body parts which were hakai'd by Goku actually regenerated.

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    • I believe that did happen but it was in the manga only.

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    • No, Giygas3 is right. Manga Zamasu literally regenrated from Hakai (albeit, regnerated from having half his body erased.) That is no resistence feat, it's simply regenration.

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    • Sidali891 wrote:
      No, Giygas3 is right. Manga Zamasu literally regenrated from Hakai (albeit, regnerated from having half his body erased.) That is no resistence feat, it's simply regenration.

      He's asking for low godly since Beerus cant kill Zamasu

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    • Yup giygas is right, Zamasu only survived the Hakai because he was immortal, he has no resistance to it.

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    • Wait so Beerus said he couldnt kill Zamasu but then later we see Hakai working on Zamasu. How does he have a resistence to an attack that was working on him?

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    • Beerus used Hakai on present Zamasu (it worked) but future Zamasu was protected by his Immortality so he was unaffected by the move.

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    • But wasnt Goku's hakai destroying him?

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    • In the manga, yes but I'm talking about the anime.

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    • Yeah in the anime he resisted it.

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      In the manga, yes but I'm talking about the anime.

      But Beerus said that he can not kill immortals so Goku's Hakai wopuld have failed even it was completed... 

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      In the manga, yes but I'm talking about the anime.

      Even in the manga, he would eventually have regenerated.

      He has regeneration in both anime and manga

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    • Can't wait for ep 100 & 101

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    • Episode 100 tonight boys so its time to place your bets. Just how many people will kale bury before jiren bitch slaps her?

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    • Betting on a whole team.

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    • Saying, two randoms from other teams, a member of 7, and then a Pride trooper, in that order.

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    • I should also clarify that Kale does not get knocked out of the tournament, but just out of Super Saiyan Berserk.

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    • I doubt Jiren will actually do something really and Kal will probably take out two to three people.

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    • Who knows??? She might end up soloing a Universe.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      I should also clarify that Kale does not get knocked out of the tournament, but just out of Super Saiyan Berserk.

      That is why I said bitch slap rather than saying takes her out.

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    • Here we go again with the fucked up power scaling.. Fuck toei honestly

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    • So...SSJ2 Caulifia fought pretty evenly with SSJ2 Goku.

      Berserk Kale casually walked though SSJB Gokus kamehameha with no damage and preceeds to easily overpower him.

      Jiren one shots Kale and Hit still feels confident in fighting him.

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    • What I got from this episode

      1,Jiren is a monster

      2. Super Saiyan Blue doesn't mean shit anymore.

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    • How so?

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      How so?

      She straight up tanked a Blue Kamehameha and proceeded to SHIT ON Goku.

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    • Holy Fuck that Broly referance scenses ! and she was screaming "son Goku" instead of "KAKAROTO" lol

      Kale is OP she didn't even get scratched by SSB kamehameha and it was the exact same scene from the movie xD

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    • Don't see how that fucks up powerscaling seeing as technically these guys are gonna be 3-A anyway.

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    • So Caulifla is easily SSB tier? I'm a little surprised.

      Also that Hit and Jiren confrontation gave me shivers!

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    • Yeah......

      I knew Kale was going to be super strong.... but THIS ?! 

      Beserk Kale literally is far stronger than Blue now... And i never thought i would hear those words. It literally went just like Broly's fight with  Goku... Jesus Kale... 

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    • Jiren one shotte Kale who trashed SSB who fought Hit to draw and he wanted to take on Jiren lol 

      He still escape like little bitch at the end ~

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    • The 2nd Existential Seed wrote:
      Yeah......

      I knew Kale was going to be super strong.... but THIS ?! 

      Beserk Kale literally is far stronger than Blue now... And i never thought i would hear those words. It literally went just like Broly's fight with  Goku... Jesus Kale... 

      They literley did this to make it identical to Goku's fight with Broly

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    • How in the hell is Goku gonna beat jiren, he straight up One shotted Kale who almost manhandled SSB Goku?

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    • New Transformation. Also Hit can indeed Time Skip in the World of Void.

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    • @Quag

      If the opening's anything to go by Goku's getting a new form.

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    • SSB is pretty much SSJ in Cell sage now lol 

      It's funny the OP shows SSB fighting Jiren equally and after this ep i dunno how 0_0

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    • Yeah, unless they say "fuck scaling" SSB Goku gets destroyed by Jiren

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    • ^ Pretty much this.

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    • ^ More than likely it is Jiren holding back... Or some BS 

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    • So Kale is going to get an upragde to 3-A right?

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    • With the events of this episode i can safely say that as of now being Universe Level in Dragon Ball Super is as unimpressive as being Solar System Level in Dragon Ball Z.

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    • So SSJ2 Caulifla=SSJ2 Goku<<<<<SSB Goku<<<<<<<<SSBerserker Kale<<<<<<<<Jiren

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    • The episode definitely made clear Kale is an hard-hitter. I didn't expect her to be that strong, but whatever...

      Based on this episode, i am happy Kale wasn't in the U6 Saga... U7 would've lost BIG TIME. 

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    • The only way to salvage this, is to say that Goku wasn't going full out, in order to not kill her, but if that's not the case, then like Dragon said, new transformation, even though I feel that's just a cop out.

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    • Jiren is clearly the Mortal Whis was talking about...i mean he clearly made SSB look like Frieza soldier fodder.

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    • Yeah. I agree with Dragon. That is his only hope here... Otherwise he gets mandhandled.

      SSJ4 Gogeta vs Kale everyone... Wait  a minute... Nevermind. 

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    • Freaking Goku just went into Jiren right away after he one shotted Kale who trashed him WTF

      I will just assume Goku was holding back lol

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    • Nah... I think it's Jiren whose holding back here. He doesn't seem like the type to use his full power anyways.

      Even if he was.... He still got manhandled and with one of the ki blasts was reverted to his Base form . 

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    • The 2nd Existential Seed wrote: SSJ4 Gogeta vs Kale everyone... Wait  a minute... Nevermind. 


      Man i remember the good old days...when SSJ4 Gogeta was hyped as the strongest character in all of Dragon Ball.

      I remember going to comic vine and seeing all of those SSJ4 Gogeta vs Whis and Beerus threads.

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    • Goku was also fighting him in base ..............

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    • Welp... So we got SSB Goku getting manhandled by Kale, and Jiren just destroys her as if she was nothing, and SSJ2 Goku still surviving Kale attacks before Going into SSB? Wut.

      Does this mean SSB is actually not that much more powerful than SSJ2? Find out next time on Dragon ball Super (I swear these writers don't actually know how strong they made these characters) :/ 

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    • I swear Super is going to pull the holding back card so hard to make Goku vs Jiren even possible

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    • I guess SSB is another victim of the Dragon Ball formula, (If it wasn't already).

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    • Well you guys are making big deal of this, Goku is supposde to fight Jiren in his new hyped up form not SSB, even if they trade few attacks it nothing new on DBS

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    • Why are you guys saiyng that Kale is stronger than SSB Goku just because she tanked a ssb kamehameha?? rly?? they didn't rly fought you know, if you say that Kale is stronger than Goku just because of that then put Krillin at leats 3-a too, he had a beam strugle with SSB Goku for a long time or Gohan for trading punches with him LOL, Goku in this fight wasn't rly on Full power not nearly as that, Goku is Stronger than Toppo that is not that weaker than Jiren, and Jiren ONE SHOT her, and you guys are not considering that she was on rage mode so probable she wasn't feeling any pain, but her body was being injured, if you say that she didn't have a scratch after that is ok, but Goku after all the attacks that he suffer he was without a scratch too and is looking foward to fight Jiren without a worry in the face after seeing what he is capable off, I think you guys are over reacting a little, She is NOT stronger than ssb

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    • The best part is that Goku had a confused face while getting trashed.

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    • This didn't require a tangent, we are simply stating that Toei is treating Blue like it's nothing, it's nothing new, but it's still very annoying and inconsistent.

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    • I like how people are saying "inconsistency" when in fact it isn't. We never once saw Super Saiyan Berserk's true power. It best Blue is nothing new. Hit did so. Android 17 did so. Toppo forced a Kaioken. Kale is clearly a heavy hitter. Not only that once this tournament is over, everyone here should be in the MG+ -Universal range of power anyway.

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    • They hype the shit out of kale just trash her at the hand of jiren who will get trashed By Goku, give Kale one more episode to trash her out of the ring

      People need to get used to Toei simple and on track logic 

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    • I wouldn't put 17 in there, that was a shitfest as well.

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    • Vegan Gains wrote:
      This didn't require a tangent, we are simply stating that Toei is treating Blue like it's nothing, it's nothing new, but it's still very annoying and inconsistent.

      Yeah but that doen't mean that she was trashing on him, they didn't rly fought like at all (ssb vs berseker) thats why I think people are overracting to this, Goku probably would win against her with with ease actually if he was full power (not kaio-ken) like when he faced Toppo, if you say that Kale is stronger than SSB than you are saiyng that Jiren can One shot Goku? or Vegeta? or Hit? or even Toppo? this was just an outline to get Jiren some Hype

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    • Pretty much this.

      SSB Goku is made to hype up Kale

      SSBerserk Kale is made to hype up Jiren.

      Jiren is made to hype up Goku's new form.

      DB has done this since DBZ. 

      Mecha Frieza hyped up Trunks.

      Trunks was used to hype up the Androids.

      The Androids were used to hype up Cell.

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    • Vegan Gains wrote:
      I wouldn't put 17 in there, that was a shitfest as well.

      Regardless my point still stands.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      Pretty much this.

      SSB Goku is made to hype up Kale

      SSBerserk Kale is made to hype up Jiren.

      Jiren is made to hype up Goku's new form.

      DB has done this since DBZ. 

      Mecha Frieza hyped up Trunks.

      Trunks was used to hype up the Androids.

      The Androids were used to hype up Cell.

      Pretty much this 

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    • And, it's seen as inconsistent because, SSB is hyped as "rivaling the power of the gods", only to then job to a girl who just achieved her form like 6 hours ago, it's like a seasoned martial arts master who's honed his craft for years, lose to a white belt.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      Pretty much this.

      SSB Goku is made to hype up Kale

      SSBerserk Kale is made to hype up Jiren.

      Jiren is made to hype up Goku's new form.

      DB has done this since DBZ. 

      Mecha Frieza hyped up Trunks.

      Trunks was used to hype up the Androids.

      The Androids were used to hype up Cell.

      5135200-this

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    • Vegan Gains wrote:
      And, it's seen as inconsistent because, SSB is hyped as "rivaling the power of the gods", only to then job to a girl who just achieved her form like 6 hours ago, it's like a seasoned martial arts master who's honed his craft fyears, lose to a white belt.

      You realize this is a BRAND NEW kind of Dragon Ball Super Saiyan. This simply means that Super Saiyan Berserk has "power that rivals the gods". Not inconsistent as we have never seen this transformation before. Simple as that.

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    • I hear my boy Jiren one shot Kale, I gotta see this episode.

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    • @Vegan No, its like a seasoned martial artist losing to a bulldozer.

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    • I almost have a hard time getting interested in new DB characters cause I know what's going to happen to them.

      You guys think Jiren is so awesome and badass? Give it an arc or two and a new guy's going to make Jiren look like a little girl scout and all the hype will rush towards him. Until a new guy does the same to him and so on and so forth.

      To the point where eventually whoever it is you liked is going to fall down the rabbit hole of powerscaling becoming weaker and weaker until their reduced to an obscurity. Remember, there was a time when Yamcha and Oolong were heavy hitters. Guys like Jiren and Hit are most likely not immune to the same thing happening to them.

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    • LordGriffin1000 wrote:
      I hear my boy Jiren one shot Kale, I gotta see this episode.

      He did that red blast thing from that game. He had that badass pose at the end to.

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    • Now I definitely got to see it, see y'all later.

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    • @Ryu Yeah, this is how Dragon Ball has hyped up characters since Z. It is just how it is. Although I feel that Vegeta, Hit, Kale and Jiren will stay relevantly powerful though.

      Cabba, Caulifla and Kale have Saiyan Relevancy Insurance Policy as well.

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    • I think Jiren, Hit and Goku are gonna be the Monster Trio of DB.

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    • RadicalMrR wrote:
      I think Jiren, Hit and Goku are gonna be the Monster Trio of DB.

      ^This

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    • Triple threat match between Goku, Hit and Jiren has to happen

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    • I agree with Dragon & Radical here. 

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    • IMO Hit has the coolest powers in the entire series and Toppo has such a whacky, fun personality to go along with his terrifying strength. I hope those two stay relevent for a while.

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    • @Ryu Same. I don't know, but for some reason, I see these guys staying relevant. 

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    • Kale seems to be U6's Gohan Saiyan . 

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    • This is my U6-U7 parallel.

      Cabba=Vegeta

      Caulifla=Goku

      Kale=Gohan

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      You guys think Jiren is so awesome and badass? Give it an arc or two and a new guy's going to make Jiren look like a little girl scout and all the hype will rush towards him. Until a new guy does the same to him and so on and so forth.


      Well to their credit Hit and Kale for example have avoided being buried. Ironically even with all these new characters we've got quite a few fan favorites that so far have avoided irrelevancy. I don't see Jiren being buried if Hit can stay relevant.

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    • Anybody notice how hit stoped or skipped time inside the void?

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    • Yeah. I'm glad they didn't restrict Hit here.

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    • Did you guys notice when Kale beats up Goku it was the exact same as how what Hulk did to Loki in Avengers lmao 

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    • Yup, I'm honestly wanting a jiren vs hit instead of goku

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    • Especially considering how well Beserk Kale did against SSB, is anyone ( except for Apprentice ) in agreement that Kale easily scales to SSB ? 

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    • Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff wrote: Yup, I'm honestly wanting a jiren vs hit instead of goku

      Pretty sure everyone want that too

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    • TBH, I'm iffy on that, on one side it makes sense as kale is prottray ed as a brute with enormous power up till this episode, but on the other, the completely came out of left field with no fighting build up what's so ever

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    • I think so. I mean SSB Kamehameha didn't do anything against Kale after all. So I think Berserker > SSB. 

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    • You all know the power of rage is one of the biggest boosts in the series so a form that is literally encompassed around it has to be the strongest form even Vegeta said it's the true form of a saiyan. It's really no surprise that a regular blue couldnt handle it. The whole point of everything leading up to the tournament and the battle itself is to show us that super saiyan blue doesn't mean much anymore, it sucks but it has to happen for the series to move forward.

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    • If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

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    • JirenOp1
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    • Anyways, Jiren is looking as OP as he was hyped to be.

      My reaction was kinda "urgh" at Kale no-selling a Kamehameha from SSB Goku - I get that they probably wanted to mirror that scene where Broly did the same to a SSJ Goku back in the first movie, but still...

      Anyways, maybe she'll still have a part to play later on. And Goku will need some halp - if he was having trouble with Kale, Jiren will rekt him hard.

      Other than that, not much. They were kind of Jerks to Kale in this episode too. ovo

      Caulifla like "I have a new, better friend."

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    • Thanks Byakuya & Nibbler . I expected it to be uber powerful. The only thing that was oriented around Rage was well Super Saiyan Rage. And it seems this version is much stronger than SSR. Especially how Vegeta was referring to her transformation as an Saiyan's True Form, as opposed to SSB or SSG. I expected her to do something ridiculous .But... not like this.  At least going off of scaling .

      This segment also proved that she definitely doesn't scale to Cauliflia. Just her charging sent SSJ2 Caulifilia flying, while SSJ2 Goku was still sent flying, just buried wthin the ground.

      People keep on telling me she isn't holding back. Well, no s*** sherlock. He isn't using SSBKK . OBVIOUSLY . 

      Not only that, but many people in the Tournament of Power  referred to her power as either insane or terrifying [ Hit noted that Cauliflia awakened a "Beast", which is definitely a compliment of power for Kale ] . Not only that, but Vegeta also referred to it in that fashion as well [ " Be Careful, Goku. This might be a Saiyan's True Form " ]  . Also notice how everyone in the room was petrified / amazed by her power [ Sans Jiren, for obvious reason. Even Toppo noted how even her voice was insanely powerful .  ]  . Vegeta noted she was dangerous and he had to be careful .  

      And nope, before you guys said she ran out of energy after the SSB Kamehameha , Piccollo said she "Can't control her powers" , which was the reason why she stopped.    She also put him into a hold he couldn't get out of (debatably ) , and then either: threw him with enough force to knock Goku out of the transformation , or one of the ki blasts did it. It's pretty clear that either one of those things demorphed Goku's Blue Form back to Base, as there's no evidence he did it manually.Also, please notice how as soon as he recovered from either of the three attacks i mentioned , he said "Ow,ow,ow" to note he did take quite a bit of damage, and he was back in Base form. That should definitely be noted.

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    • Not sure Goku took much damage from her attacks seeing how he looks completely fine afterwards (and up for a fight against Jiren, but we'll see about that), but other than that, she still lolnoped his Kamehameha.

      That's a thing.

      Anyways, wait until SSB Goku fights Jiren and all that scalling flies out of the window.

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    • She knocked him out of Blue into base, so I think she's at least stronger than Android 17, maybe as strong as Vegeta SSB during the Black arc. I actually don't mind her being as strong as SSB, I think it's less of an asspull than Android 17 being as strong as he is and Gohan nearly being that strong.

      Also, I don't think SSB Goku could even touch Jiren, even at full power. I'm guessing the first time they actually fight, he goes straight to Kaioken, probably Kaioken x10 actually.

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    • What we see is her using some AOE attack to hit everyone and at that point Goku was still a SSB.

      After all is said and done, Goku reappears back to base not because he was hit and forced back to base from SSB, but because - as he said many times already - he is preserving his energies.

      He did it literally three times by now. He transforms into SSB, does one thing, then reverts back to either base or SSJ. Kale didn't revert Goku from SSB to base. He reverted back.

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    • meanwhile , im still waiting for Jiren V Hit V Goku.

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    • TheAnonymousJoker wrote:
      meanwhile , im still waiting for Jiren V Hit V Goku.

      The main thing I'm looking forward for... 

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    • Same.

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

      I think they're setting up his power mainly for Jiren. And possibly for Goku too if it's gonna be a Triple Threat Match. 

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    • They also made the guy with Shunkan Ido sound like a big deal and then he got a Rider Kick to the face and that was it. #ded

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    • They did the Yardrat dirty, poor guy.

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    • I was legit wondering "Why didn't he teleport back?" as he flew, since he could spam it.

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    • That was hilarous what happened to the Yardrat. Kale thrashed Goku around like a whip, seriously didn't expect her to be that powerful.

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    • Just finished watching the episode and OMG!!! When Jiren one shot Kale and struk dat pose I was just like "OMG!!! that was so badass" and then Hit heard up and I was like "It's about to go down!" But the Goku showed up and ruind my hype.

      I really was to hyped for Jiren vs Hit.

      Everything else was ok to, just seeing Kale Berserker mode in action just screamed Broly.

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    • FateAlbane wrote:
      What we see is her using some AOE attack to hit everyone and at that point Goku was still a SSB.

      After all is said and done, Goku reappears back to base not because he was hit and forced back to base from SSB, but because - as he said many times already - he is preserving his energies.

      He did it literally three times by now. He transforms into SSB, does one thing, then reverts back to either base or SSJ. Kale didn't revert Goku from SSB to base. He reverted back.

      What about his whole "ow, ow ow," reaction to the whole thing, as well as being buried underneath rocks? That's not him simply turning off his SSB. Especially since he had no idea where she was at first. If she had been right behind him, for instance, that would be a very bad decision for him to make, since she would wipe the floor with his base.

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    • What about him being perfectly fine afterwards and willing to fight Jiren of all people?

      I can say "ow ow ow" even if I burn the tip of my finger. Doesn't mean I'm that hurt, just that I felt some pain. You're reading too much into that.

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    • I'm not reading into that, I'm reading into the fact that he didn't know where she was when he got up. I don't think he was hurt but I do think he was knocked out of SSB. It's been shown that he can be knocked out of SSB with enough force (vs Golden Frieza for instance) I also believe he could have gone back into SSB after that same fight, even using full power, so I also agree that he is conserving energy, but I do think that Kale is meant to be SSB level, since it sets up the tension with Jiren. 

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    • Oh, I'm not arguing 3-A Kale. That's more than fair enough.

      And I already mentioned how she lolnoped the Kamehameha anyways.

      It's just that the scalling in DBS is all over the place atm (see Goku taking a bunch of hits from Kale while in SS2). The thing I doubt is that some of those many ki blasts that weren't even necessarily aimed at Goku knocked him out of SSB (even moreso considering that afterwards there isn't a scratch to be seen on him). Hence why I'm saying that he reverted back.

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    • Im guessing the powerscaling debate next week will be about 18 from what I saw in the preview.

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    • I'd be willing to think that he LET himself be knocked out of SSB, but I still think reverting would have caused an issue if she hadn't been somewhere else at the time, since she could have been right behind him. It's really irrelevant, actually, but it's just something I noticed.

      And yeah, but the 3-A thing is getting shot down by people salty about her lolnoping the Kamehameha right now, even though it's not even slightly as controversial as the Gohan thing, which isn't really conclusive, whereas this one is.

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    • RadicalMrR wrote: Im guessing the powerscaling debate next week will be about 18 from what I saw in the preview.

      Most likely

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    • That still doesn't explain how Goku couldn't get out of Kale's grasp [ while in SSB ]  afterwards.She still scales to SSB , via apparently : lolnoping his SSBKamehameha, and giving him a hold he couldn't escape from, even while struggling. 

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    • Goku could probably do something about that hold in time or if he went fully serious or, again, if he wasn't preserving his energies. See how Gohan seemed to be worried at first but then Picollo told him to wait.

      But the Kamehameha feat is fair game. If she wasn't around SSB level that would have at the very least sent her flying out of the arena.

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    • Place your bets gentlemen if the triple threat match for the world heavyweight championship happens then who will win between the legendary hit, jiren the savage and goku?

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    • Really don't see the issue with goku getting his ass kicked, kale's transformation is a new one that hadn't been tested, so don't see any powerscaling issues, not like goku was going all out with kaoiken and everything. And we all know goku is getting a new transformation cause jiren just one shotted kale like it's nothing, unless goku doesn't get a new transformation or kaoiken x50 or something, that's when i will call bs cause there is no way the current goku should be able to take jiren.

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    • Derpmaster9000 wrote:
      Place your bets gentlemen if the triple threat match for the world heavyweight championship happens then who will win between the legendary hit, jiren the savage and goku?

      Currently, I'm guessing Jiren. If Hit was confident in taking him out, he wouldn't have prepared an escape. Goku may be able to hold his own against a semi-serious Jiren when using Kaioken x10 or stronger, but I doubt he would hold a candle to Jiren if he went serious.

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    • The only powerscalling issue I've seen was Goku tanking a bunch of bloodlusted hits from Kale while in SS2. Other than that, none.

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    • FateAlbane wrote:
      The only powerscalling issue I've seen was Goku tanking a bunch of bloodlusted hits from Kale while in SS2. Other than that, none.

      It could be argued that she powered herself up more for SSB after seeing its power.

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    • Ryukama wrote: If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

      Agreed. His fight with Narirama shows how easily he can solo 99% of competition.

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    • Hit The Badass wrote:

      Ryukama wrote: If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

      Agreed. His fight with Narirama shows how easily he can solo 99% of competition.

      How likely do you think Hit will face off against Jiren or maybe defeat Toppo to get to him?

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    • I also agree with Pegasus, and everything he just said.

      I know he could Kaio-Ken, but it's something worth noting that even though he struggled in SSB, he wasn't able to get out. Gohan being worried seems to make the implications even higher though, considering he knows how powerful SSB is from experience. He told him to wait because her energy was going out of control, nothing to do with helping Goku or that fight . 

      I know the Kamehameha feat is good enough for her to scale to SSB .

      Also worth to note Vegeta seemed scared of Kale, in a similar  fashion to Broly . Especially in regards to her power

      Also worth to note he had NO reason to go Blue in that fight. ABSOLUTELY none. She never said to use full power, she just wanted to smash him and things. In every other fight in the ToP, he had a reason to go Blue [ The trios de danger : wanted to end them quickly. The grabbling guy: Needed to get him off, or he was that strong, which doesn't really contradict anything ] . WIth Kale, he didn't need ANY reason, unless he thought like 17, she was a true threat to him. 

      I always called his first fight with SSJ2 vs Kale PIS ,  but still didn't do anything to her though. Unless what Aeyu said is true ( it's pretty likely ) , we can just say it's PIS . 

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    • Hit and Jiren's stairdown got me so hyped. They better fucking fight! I also like that Hit took the time to save Caulifla, and the fact that it shows that the two are communicating with each other.

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    • @Seed I don't think anyone is arguing about Kale not being 3-A or around SSB level by now.

      Almost everyone in this tournament (who has a name) is getting some 3-A scalling by the end of this.

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    • FateAlbane wrote:
      @Seed I don't think anyone is arguing about Kale not being 3-A or around SSB level by now.

      Almost everyone in this tournament (who has a name) is getting some 3-A scalling by the end of this.

      With the exception of Tien, Roshi and Krillin, along with some of the weaklings in the beginning who got eliminated. Also, I don't necessarily think Gohan is, yet, but I think he definitely will be by the end of the tournament. I actually predict Gohan will be the one to defeat Jiren if it comes down to that.

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    • Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      I like how people are saying "inconsistency" when in fact it isn't. We never once saw Super Saiyan Berserk's true power. It best Blue is nothing new. Hit did so. Android 17 did so. Toppo forced a Kaioken. Kale is clearly a heavy hitter. Not only that once this tournament is over, everyone here should be in the MG+ -Universal range of power anyway.


      Except SSJ2 Caulifla casually deflected a ki blast from Berserk Kale. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't mind deeming Kale as a heavy hitter among the other 3-A's. Otherwise, I smell PIS and/or outlier from Kale manhandling SSB Goku.

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    • MeleeniumRXJ wrote:
      Dragonmasterxyz wrote:
      I like how people are saying "inconsistency" when in fact it isn't. We never once saw Super Saiyan Berserk's true power. It best Blue is nothing new. Hit did so. Android 17 did so. Toppo forced a Kaioken. Kale is clearly a heavy hitter. Not only that once this tournament is over, everyone here should be in the MG+ -Universal range of power anyway.

      Except SSJ2 Caulifla casually deflected a ki blast from Berserk Kale. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't mind deeming Kale as a heavy hitter among the other 3-A's. Otherwise, I smell PIS and/or outlier from Kale manhandling SSB Goku.

      I argued before that she could have powered herself up for SSB, which can somewhat be inferred from when Goku first takes on the form. If anything I would call Caulifla being able to deflect one of her attacks an outlier.

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    • @Mellennium

      [SIGH] That blast was meant to kill Cabba, not Caulifilia. This also was debunked in Episode 100by how easily Kale knocked SSJ2 Caulifilia  nearly off stage in episode 100[ by just charging forward and she received the backlash , not the full force ]  , if it weren't for Hit. So that is clearly debunked.

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    • Too bad Goku yet again didn't use SSJ3 against Caulifllia

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    • Anyone else laugh at Magettta and Botama running from Kale's AOE attack?

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    • Aeyu wrote:

      Hit The Badass wrote:

      Ryukama wrote: If Hit's timeskip didn't get nerfed why isn't he soloing nearly everyone with it? Like I get the actual reason that the tournament would be super boring otherwise. But still it's a bit frustrating that he has such a trump card and won't use it.

      Agreed. His fight with Narirama shows how easily he can solo 99% of competition.

      How likely do you think Hit will face off against Jiren or maybe defeat Toppo to get to him?

      At this point, nothing is sure.

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    • The 2nd Existential Seed wrote:
      @Mellennium

      [SIGH] That blast was meant to kill Cabba, not Caulifilia. This also was debunked in Episode 100by how easily Kale knocked SSJ2 Caulifilia  nearly off stage in episode 100[ by just charging forward and she received the backlash , not the full force ]  , if it weren't for Hit. So that is clearly debunked.


      Knocking someone a distance isn't anything. It's just that in this ToP, it's a big deal because you can get knocked off the arena. If this were any other fight, it would have been Kale sending Caulifla flying with no significant damage inflicted (plus Caulifla would have her flying ability to stop her own trajectory). People around the same level of power can do that to each other. If Caulifla would have been rendered unconcious, or killed even, then that would be something. 

      To be fair though, if I were to give this any explanation, it would be the fact that Kale's Broly-like form raises in power over time. It's possible that Kale was weaker when she fought Cabba than when she fought SSB Goku.

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    • Celestial Pegasus wrote:
      Really don't see the issue with goku getting his ass kicked, kale's transformation is a new one that hadn't been tested, so don't see any powerscaling issues, not like goku was going all out with kaoiken and everything. And we all know goku is getting a new transformation cause jiren just one shotted kale like it's nothing, unless goku doesn't get a new transformation or kaoiken x50 or something, that's when i will call bs cause there is no way the current goku should be able to take jiren.


      I don't think many of us have an inconsistency issue with Kale. Rather, we have an issue with a non-god SSJ form being more powerful than SSB. It just takes away what's special about SSB. Now if it's later explained that she possesses god ki (somehow) in Berserk, that would be a little bit better. 

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    • Ssb hasn't been special since frieza a non god ki character could combat it, same with hit, having god ki or not is irrelevant at this point.

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    • I've said this before.

      Hit needs to stop time.

      Throw everyone but U6 and the couple of heavy hitters who can probably resist his abilities like Goku and Jiren. Which he could do pretty effortlessly and instantaneously due to his speed.

      Then have U6 hide and do absolutely nothing while he tries to hold off heavy hitters at least until the tournament ends. Either that or hope other heavy hitters distract each other too much to notice U6 hiding.

      Best chance of his team winning IMO.

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    • Champa: "Come on guys, Hit can't do this by himself" (everyone but Hit walks off).

      Champa: "Alright Hit you gotta do this by yourself, those guys are useless"

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      I've said this before.

      Hit needs to stop time.

      Throw everyone but U6 and the couple of heavy hitters who can probably resist his abilities like Goku and Jiren. Which he could do pretty effortlessly and instantaneously due to his speed.

      Then have U6 hide and do absolutely nothing while he tries to hold off heavy hitters at least until the tournament ends. Either that or hope other heavy hitters distract each other too much to notice U6 hiding.

      Best chance of his team winning IMO.

      I agree, but I don't think Hit has shown his true potential as of yet, even with him backing away from Jiren. He might be even more powerful than the last time we saw him, which is actually very likely considering his being the leader of Team 6. I think he is at least far stronger than Kale.

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    • Celestial Pegasus wrote:
      Ssb hasn't been special since frieza a non god ki character could combat it, same with hit, having god ki or not is irrelevant at this point.


      It's different when it's another saiyan with a SSJ form that's not divine. Frieza, Hit etc... aren't saiyans. And their forms aren't a type of SSJ form. I can give Frieza a free pass because his species inherently has more potential than saiyans. Plus, Golden had significant weakness back in the RoF arc. And Hit is an unknown species that apparently can live for millenia and manipulate time. They're fundimentally different from saiyans.

      Kale is a saiyan. They spent all this time hyping up SSG and SSB as a divine form that saiyans can achieve to rival the gods. Yet here Kale does it with a non-divine SSJ form.

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    • Tfw you realize that Hit, again, is restricted for not being allowed to kill.

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    • SSBeserk Kale vs SSRage Trunks in the future ( without that Sword )

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    • @MeleeniumRXJ Trunks literally asspulled out ssj rage which rivals ssb, kale is an unknown, her ssj form is different from normal, so don't really have an issue with it. Ultimately anyone relevant whether they have god ki or not will be on or close to ssb level, it's a measure stick for how powerful other people are, i know some people want it to be some sort of divine transformation where only a few can hope to match it but you have freeza with a few months of training matching it, hit matching it, trunks asspulling ssr to match it, toppo matching it, 17 doing ordinary training and not with gods like goku and vegeta did, matching it, gohan with like a days training matching it, it's really not that special a tranformation anymore.

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    • Trunks would win. He can control his Rage form and does not mess around, finishing his foes in the first opportunity he gets, while Kale goes on a Berserk rampage.

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    • Celestial Pegasus wrote:
      @MeleeniumRXJ Trunks literally asspulled out ssj rage which rivals ssb, kale is an unknown, her ssj form is different from normal, so don't really have an issue with it. Ultimately anyone relevant whether they have god ki or not will be on or close to ssb level, it's a measure stick for how powerful other people are, i know some people want it to be some sort of divine transformation where only a few can hope to match it but you have freeza with a few months of training matching it, hit matching it, trunks asspulling ssr to match it, toppo matching it, 17 doing ordinary training and not with gods like goku and vegeta did, matching it, gohan with like a days training matching it, it's really not that special a tranformation anymore.

      Which is why I think that Goku/Gohan might get a new kind of form that surpasses Super Saiyan or anything derivative entirely. (The flaming black-haired form, which is probably an SS4 tribute like Kale is to Broly)

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    • Guys, what if Hit and Jiren know each other and have history? Their stairdown almost makes it seem like they do. Like maybe Hit assassinated a Pride Trooper long ago and Jiren wants redemption.

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    • MeleeniumRXJ wrote:
      Guys, what if Hit and Jiren know each other and have history? Their stairdown almost makes it seem like they do. Like maybe Hit assassinated a Pride Trooper long ago and Jiren wants redemption.

      That or maybe Champa/Vados told him something similar to what Whis told Goku about a mortal who surpasses the gods, and maybe he thinks that's Jiren.

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    • You guys should not take the kale thing seriously. It's very obvious that the fight was done to be fan service and is almost exactly like the broly fight.

      It's why goku got manhandled but gets up after the fight with no scratches or bodily damage to fight Jiren, the guy that knocked kale out.  

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