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  • Ryukama
    Ryukama closed this thread because:
    19:12, February 26, 2017

    The fight takes place in Z City.

    Garou: 2 (XBlackExcellenceX, COB)

    Satsuki: 4 (WilliamShadow, WeeklyBattles, Takanome shanks, ScarletFirefly)

    Human Garou. Speed is equalized. Garou has his reactive evolution but is restricted from progressing to his monster form. Who wins?

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    • I would say garou it was stated he could have a match (not win) with boros incredible power. And Tatsumaki was unable to fully affect him with his power.

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    • Takanome shanks wrote:
      I would say garou it was stated he could have a match (not win) with boros incredible power.

      That's a wild speculation at best. 

      Takanome shanks wrote:
      And Tatsumaki was unable to fully affect him with his power.

      Irrelevant since Garou has resistance to Psychic attacks.

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    • @Scarlet I'd believe that statement, since it was from a direct interview from ONE and Garou has similar if not superior feats to Boros like surviving multiple Serious Series attacks from Saitama.

      It doesn't matter though since he said that about Monster Garou. Not the Garou being used in his match, which ONE made sure to specify was much weaker than Boros.

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    • I can't see how Satsuki would win here. Garou literally can evolve midst a fight. While Satsuki doesn't have anything special to counter Garou's martial arts and regen.

      This might be a stomp.

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    • I thought his regeneration was for his monster form?

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    • It's with his evolution. While he evolves he slightly regens.

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    • Just gonna put this out there: Satsuki has beaten or stalemated Ryuko, who has both better regen AND better reactive evolution than Garou, several times throughout the series.

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    • WeeklyBattles wrote: Just gonna put this out there: Satsuki has beaten or stalemated Ryuko, who has both better regen AND better reactive evolution than Garou, several times throughout the series.

      That's EOS Ryuko. Well the regen is, don't remember anything about reactive evolution.

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    • XBlackExcellenceX wrote:

      That's EOS Ryuko. Well the regen is, don't remember anything about reactive evolution.

      Ryuko has had regen and reactive evolution a loong time before going into EOS. She started evolving since episode 8 IIRC.

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    • Satsuki has range and flight here so, mid-difficulty.

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    • Ryuko doesn't even have Reactive Evolution EoS and Satsuki never fought her at that time. 

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    • Yeah, EoS Ryuko doesn't have a lot of things.

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    • Iirc she only showed High-Mid regen against her mother.

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    • XBlackExcellenceX wrote:
      Iirc she only showed High-Mid regen against her mother.

      Garou is Low-Mid though

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    • Against her mother, EOS.

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    • EoS Ryuko =/= the Ryuko who fought Ragyo

      Ryuko's High-Mid regen is due to her human-Life Fiber hybrid physiology, she has it regardless

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    • Yeah, let's leave that discussion. And just vote normally and burning you of course dont consider Garou evolving in the battle since its completly unfair?

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    • The Ryuko that fought her mother =/= EoS Ryuko. 

      And High-Mid is much greater than Low-Mid which is what Garou has only showed.

      EDIT: Weekly Ninja'd me

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    • Umm EOS Ryuko is the one the that fought her mother. But let's just leave the discussion, it's kinda irrelevant.

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    • WilliamShadow wrote: Yeah, let's leave that discussion. And just vote normally and burning you of course dont consider Garou evolving in the battle since its completly unfair?

      ?

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    • Garou fight bang tornado of theror and genos and no one can take down him. And he fight casual saitama and recover some saitama blow like boros. It's really a stomp.

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    • Garou stays human until the end? Or he can evolve in the battle?

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    • XBlackExcellenceX wrote:
      Umm EOS Ryuko is the one the that fought her mother. But let's just leave the discussion, it's kinda irrelevant.

      Ryuko fought her mother multiple times in the series.

      One of them being the version that's being used in this match.

      The other being Kisaragi Ryuko, who is Multi-Continental.

      EoS Ryuko is her in episode 25, after she defeated Ragyo and lost Senketsu.

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    • @Takanome The version of Garou that fought Saitama isnt in this fight

      @William Why would it be fair to let Garou become High 6-A?

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    • Human. I guess you can say he evolves but will still remain human.

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    • WeeklyBattles wrote:


      @William Why would it be fair to let Garou become High 6-A?

      Wait, I actually wrote it's fair? No, I wrote that he shouldn't consider him evolve.

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    • Okay to clear some of these things up:

      Garou is separated as "Human Garou" and "Monster Garou."

      • Monster Garou scales to Boros via WoG and withstood Serious Series attacks from Saitama.
      • Human Garou was explicitly said by ONE to be far weaker than Boros, and the closest thing to a fight he had with Saitama was being knocked out cold by a completely casual hit in the manga.

      Ryuko has many keys. None of which besides "True Life Fiber Synchronization" mattering here since that's the one Satsuki stalemated.

      • TLFS Ryuko has Reactive Evolution and High-Mid Regeneration. Other keys of Ryuko have different powers and abilities/lack there of. None of that being relevant since Satsuki didn't fight those other keys.

      Please keep this in mind before commenting now.

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    • Ryukama wrote: Ryuko fought her mother multiple times in the series.

      One of them being the version that's being used in this match.

      The other being Kisaragi Ryuko, who is Multi-Continental.

      EoS Ryuko is her in episode 25, after she defeated Ragyo and lost Senketsu.

      Actually yeah you're right. I should have worded it better. Episode 25(Final fight) Ryuko is the one that showed High-Mid regen.

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    • Please keep this in mind.

      Just beacuse Scarlet's avatar is Ryuko, you don't have to think Ryuko has anything to do with this battle.

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    • Ryuko never regenerated against Rei and the DEFCON in Episode 25, she just should logically still have this ability.

      TLFS and other forms, which Satuski has stalemated/defeated also have High-Mid regeneration.

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    • XBlackExcellenceX wrote:

      Actually yeah you're right. I should have worded it better. Episode 25(Final fight) Ryuko is the one that showed High-Mid regen.

      I believe you're mistaking it for the 24th episode, the fight against her mother Ragyo. 

      Anyway, every single form of Ryuko has regen, be it with/without Senketsu, EoS or not, adult or baby, everyone is capable of regening.

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    • ^I believe you people didn't understand you are derailing for no reason. (For one time it's not me)

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    • I was just trying to explain that Satsuki would win due to her consistently fighting and beating/stalemating Ryuko, who is not only stronger than Garou but has much better versions of his abilities.

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    • So it's 2 for Garou and 1 for Satsuki.

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    • @Burning Takanome shanks based his/her vote on a version of Garou not being used in this fight. That one shouldn't be counted.

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    • Yeah, I'm counting the votes from William and Excellence. Oh, sorry. It's actually 2 for Satsuki and 1 for Garou.

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    • I didn't notice  the "human garou form". It's completely different with this form "human garou form". I think Satsuki would win more skill long range. Although take down down garou would be quite difficult due to is high regeneration.

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    • XBlackExcellenceX wrote:
      I can't see how Satsuki would win here. Garou literally can evolve midst a fight. While Satsuki doesn't have anything special to counter Garou's martial arts and regen.

      This might be a stomp.

      Evolving and regen is taken care of. And Satsuki is a very skilled fighter herself. Also Garou's analyzing skills matter little when his chances of actually getting close on Satsuki are slim due to her effective range with Bakuzan, flight and ranged slashes/shockwaves.

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    • Is this a stomp? In Satsuki's favor?

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    • ScarletFirefly wrote: Evolving and regen is taken care of.

      Not really, I don't remember her showing High-Mid regen until her fight with Raygo. But even if she did she never used it against Satsuki. So I have no reason to believe Satsuki can counter regen.

      And Satsuki is a very skilled fighter herself.

      Ok? I highly doubt she's on Garou's level.

      Also Garou's analyzing skills matter little when his chances of actually getting close on Satsuki are slim due to her effective range with Bakuzan flight and ranged slashes/shockwaves.

      Her flight is useful yes. But it's not going to be useful when she has to engage in CQC. Garou has fought someone that can use energy blasts before.

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    • Flight,range Garou can't really do anything about that.

      And Genos is 7-B so, yeah much weaker.

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    • Pretty sure Garou's analytical side is going to be enough to keep up. As said, flight is not that useful if one has to engage in C&C and it's not the first time Garou dealt with energy attacks or ranged attackers as XBlack said. And the martial arts skill level of Garou is quite prodigious and Satsuki hasn't really shown any great level of using her wits in terms of a frontal battle with the exception of her idea with Ryuko on attacking her mother.

      There's also the pressure points that Garou has displayed that he knew of after beating up all the martial artists. Well, not necessarily that but basically Garou knows a lot of skills that would help him. And before you say no, remember, Garou combined all the skills he had in the end to form that God Slayer Fist style. 

      So all in all I believe Garou can win this, and if it's a battle of attrition and stamina I side with him too.

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    • Pls don't compare a 7-B range attack with 7-A range attack and flight is a big thing in any case.

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    • Comparing 7-B energy blasts to 7-A slashes is not even worthy of being discussed, especially when there are speed differences.

      As I said before. Garou is at a disadvantage, both in close quarters and long range. His long range fighting is non existent. Now when engaging in CQC Garou has to work twice as hard as Satsuki to even be a threat. His arm's range is half of her Bakuzan's. Try and battle a sworduser with your fists and see how that works out for you. Same thing will happen with Garou but will take longer due to their stamina and skill.

      And I'm not even counting here her willpower generated shockwaves that can send him flying backwards and resetting the board and starting again a neutral battle. And yes, flight is a very good advantage, especially when you have ranged attacks to go along with it.

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    • Okay, so I think you're voting for Satsuki?

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    • Burning Full Fingers wrote:
      Okay, so I think you're voting for Satsuki?

      Yes that would be correct.

      Also remember Junketsu is able to protrude large blades from it's body so engaging in CQC with Satsuki is even more dangerous.

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    • Did I say totally useless? I said it's not that useful and it's still helpful but is Satsuki really the type to stay afar and strike from there? Sorry but from what I've remembered last I watched that show everything was handled up close and personal with flurry of strikes in melee. I just don't see any of the major KLK characters sticking up in the air and bombarding from afar since it is shonen enough. Then again my memory is a bit wonky.

      Speed is equalized

      Oh is that so? Even when speed is equalized there are speed differences huh.

      Err why would he be at a disadvantage at that? If Garou gets up close and personal he can aim for the hands and block those strikes. Sure he has less of a reach but we've seen him use his fair share of debris against enemies. Not to mention the last time he dealt with someone with a long ranged blade against him he took that attack and disarmed that fellow. I wonder how Satsuki would do without a blade? I don't even get why you're trying to argue for long range that much when technically if speed is equalized and someone is attacking you from afar you'd have a better chance of dodging. 

      Are we seriously arguing the shockwave argument? Garou could keep up with Metal Bat whose shockwaves can crack the ground while heavily injured. What are you even arguing- reset? What do you mean a reset? Reset of distance? You could've phrased it much better if that's the caser but either way how would it exactly repel Garou if for example he blocks it? I'm not saying he blocks it the first time but he'll figure it out sooner than later and this guy can tank an attack and disarm an opponent.

      @BFF

      The KLK avatar helps shows whose side they're on imo

      @Scarlet 2

      Sometimes people are compensating for something : p

      But in all seriousness bigger doesn't always mean better. It can take more time to swing and etc. And if that's disarmed.... well, that won't be fun. Also no argument for the pressure points huh.

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    • Yes we are seriously arguing the shockwave argument. Satsuki could do the same since episode 3. And resetting means going back to where the fight started.

      Garou won't know to block a shockwave he doesn't know it coming at all. And even when he blocks it, he will get set back.

      The KLK avatar helps shows whose side they're on imo

      You really went there didn't you? I guess attacking the person and not the argument is cool now. Great.

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    • You're the one who started the shockwave argument on the first place... There, that last statement you said there helps. 

      Alright, so he gets sent back. Close in again then. He's the type that analyzes the enemy and adapt to their attacks. That's why on long term the battle is on his side.

      ? What? Avatar helps define who we're voting for or rather on whose side typically don't they? Of course it's not always true but with how you're also writing paragraphs to defend your side isn't it a bit obvious? If it was offensive I take it back then maybe I worded it wrong. See the ": p" section over there?... Geez

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    • CoreOfimBalance(COB) wrote:

      Alright, so he gets sent back. Close in again then. He's the type that analyzes the enemy and adapt to their attacks. That's why on long term the battle is on his side.

      Close in again and sent back again. Two can play that game. And analyzing your opponent doesn't mean he'll be sure to evade it, especially since it's a 360 degree shockwave.

      No avatars don't help define who we're voting for. Just because I like KLK doesn't mean I'll make arguments where none exist to be made. No it wasn't offensive but it's annoying when people try and pull the biased card when one is wording his arguments. If that wasn't your intention then forget about it.

      Anyway, since we seem to have reached an impasse, I'll end it here. I made all my arguments, you made yours, noone is convinced so just agree to disagree I believe.

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    • And what happens if he latches onto Satsuki when she uses it which would also aid against Satsuki's use of flight? If he knocks away the weapon or grabs onto her neck when she uses it? Would that be a helpful reset? There's also the possibility of preventing an attack from initiating in the first place and the existence of pressure point attacks still.

      I apologize for that.

      Nope. I haven't made all of em yet but if you stop it's understandable.

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    • I mentioned before that Junketsu can protrude blades from it's body so grabbing or latching onto Satsuki isn't a good idea. Just saying.

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    • Even at the face? Or rather which is faster, snapping a neck and trying to choke someone or that? Though I have to ask for a video of that since the only one I know who did that is Senketsu. And that hasn't slowed down Garou before either. Guy deflects bullets and can break through defenses like what he did to Darkshine, and that was still pretty human of him.

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    • If anything, consistently pushing Garou away with energy would only make him evolve to resist it.

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    • CoreOfimBalance(COB) wrote:
      Even at the face? Or rather which is faster, snapping a neck and trying to choke someone or that? Though I have to ask for a video of that since the only one I know who did that is Senketsu. And that hasn't slowed down Garou before either. Guy deflects bullets and can break through defenses like what he did to Darkshine, and that was still pretty human of him.

      Junketsu could protrude blades and spikes before even being infused with Senketsu's Life Fibers, so it's ability to change shape and evolve is even higher than before. And those spikes can be used for added maneuverability as well.

      Dd (1)
      Dd (2)
      Zz
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    • It's true but when I see  Metal bat profil tier 7A. "(It was stated multiple times that he could one shot Human Garou. Human Garou at this point was capable of overpowering previous Metal Bat, who was significantly amped by his fighting spirit"

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    • Last pic was more relevant than the rest, the other two are useless. Then yeah definitely aids Satsuki but their formation doesn't mean her body is absolutely untouchable. And what XBlack said. He doesn't have that ridiculous reactive evolution when he's in monster form but there's the clear growth and changes as he's evolving like when he fought Darkshine.

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    • "Garou has regeneration and reactive evolution"

      Ryuko has superior versions of both these powers than Garou, yet she has never been able to defeat Satsuki.

      "Garou has greater fighting skill"

      I agree he's a better h2h martial artist, but his range is pitiful against Satsuki's. And Satsuki is a much higher end of Mountain level than Garou. Garou is Mountain level scaling to City levels. Satsuki gets her ratings in the same way from Mountain levels, and the scaling is far greater with numerous levels of someone one shotting another then they one shotting that person, etc.

      I got both of these characters upgraded to the stats this match up is using, I know how their powers and tiering works.

      But without those two advantages that keep getting brought up, don't see how Garou would win besides this then. 

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    • CoreOfimBalance(COB) wrote:
      Last pic was more relevant than the rest, the other two are useless. Then yeah definitely aids Satsuki but their formation doesn't mean her body is absolutely untouchable. 

      Just to be clear, the spikes can change form, size and be redirected at will, as long as Junketsu doesn't run out on surface area.

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    • I don't understand how sharp clothes (basically)  can affect someone who can evolve from hits by bats, swords, bullets, and energy blasts.

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    • Maybe because they are much stronger than any earthly material and have harmed people with a lot higher durability than Garou.

      He doesn't gain magical immunity to all baseball bat, gunshot, sword or energy attacks. He just gets strong enough to where the users of those things can't harm him anymore. 

      Even then saying he can resist any type of sword attack no matter how much stronger it is than him is a major NLF.

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      Maybe because they are much stronger than any earthly material and have harmed people with a lot higher durability than Garou.

      He doesn't gain magical immunity to all baseball bat, gunshot, sword or energy attacks. He just gets strong enough to where the users of those things can't harm him anymore. 

      Even then saying he can resist any type of sword attack no matter how much stronger it is than him is a major NLF.

      I never said he's immune to those attacks.  I simply said he survived and evolved to these attacks. 

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    • Then whats your point? He survives and evolves from attacks weaker or comparable to him. If Satsuki's "sharp clothes" can harm people a lot stronger than him with better evolution, why would it not affect Garou?

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      Then whats your point? He survives and evolves from attacks weaker or comparable to him. If Satsuki's "sharp clothes" can harm people a lot stronger than him with better evolution, why would it not affect Garou?

      My point was that he has experience with sharp or blunt weapons. So there's no reason sharp clothes should one-shot him.

      How is Ryuko's evolution better than Garou's? 

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    • If sharp clothes can harm people much stronger than Garou, they should one shot him. Or at the very least be able to affect him. Garou explicitly said Metal Bat could've one shot him and that he'd lose badly to Lightspeed Flash. He can simply get overpowered by weapon users much stronger than him.

      And Garou's Reactive Evolution boils down to getting stronger when he gets the crap beaten out of him (which Ryuko can do too) and resisting an attack already negatable by high will power.

      Ryuko can just gain brand new powers out of nowhere cause of her evolution. Someone is beating her with flight, she can now fly. Someone is beating her with Sound Manipulation, she now has Sound Manipulation. Someone is beating her with whips, she can now grow spikes out of her body to cut them.

      Of course there would be limits to this ability of hers (she can't just evolve a counter to everything), but the point stands her showings are better than Garou's.

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    • I can't even remember how Satsuki stalemated Ryūko. Didn't she develop counters to her attacks like she did to the Elite 4?

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    • I will like to mention that Satsuki's higher range is irrelevant here given Garou has fought people with higher attack ranges than him (Genos and Metal Bat are two examples).  Also Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist/Tornado can reflect the opponents attacks even if there're stronger. 

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    • Also Metal Bat also has reactive evolution. So him becoming too strong for Garou shouldn't be relevant here.

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    • @xblack Metal bat has a very small advantage in range and Genos is super weak in confronts to Satsuki so her range advantage is not only bigger than metal bat, but also much stronger than Genos attacks and Garou is weak against sharp weapons. Satsuki simply has huge adavtange here. And it reflects phisical attacks while her range attacks have nothing to do with that,and those phisical attacks are also probably only in hand to hand combat which won't happen since Satsuki uses a weapon.

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    • Just because he has fought people with higher range doesn't mean range (especially witn flight and greater manueverability) wouldn't be a considerable advantage. Especially when said attacks are also much stronger than you.

      Also his martial arts can compensate for a strength disadvantage, but he can simply get overpowered by people much stronger than them physically.

      If strength is irrelevant to him and Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist will reflect all stronger attacks, why was Garou so sure he'd lose to Lightspeed? Why did he believe Metal Bat can one shot him? Clearly his martial arts don't negate AP differences as much as being implied.

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      Why did he believe Metal Bat can one shot him? Clearly his martial arts don't negate AP differences as much as being implied.

      Actually he did reflect Metal Bat's attacks a few times. But as I stated above, Bat also can evolve midst a fight. So he eventually became too strong for Garou. And Flash was able to hold his own against Monster Garou. So Human Garou's regen and evolution wouldn't save him there.

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    • He can reflect metal bats attacks because he is uses a metal bat he could not reflect a sharp object and even if he could from time to time it wouldnt change the fact he can't reflect her range attacks and having flight gives you huge manueverabiltty advantage.

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    • At the end of the fight, Garou says if Metal Bat directly hit him just once, it wouldn't have ended well for him.

      Also Lightspeed pretty much got fodderized by Monster Garou for the most part.

      But again the idea remains that Garou cannot just use his Reactive Evolution or fighting skill to get out of a situation where someone had outmatched him considerable in strength. This has been shown and stated multiple times. And while not to the extent Monster Garou would to Human Garou, Satsuki does outclass him significantly in strength.

      As well having the manuerverability, flight and range advantage added on top of that. And she has defeated people with superior versions of his powers. So there's really not much going for Garou.

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    • I can't even remember how Satsuki stalemated Ryūko. Didn't she develop counters to her attacks like she did to the Elite 4?

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      At the end of the fight, Garou says if Metal Bat directly hit him just once, it wouldn't have ended well for him.

      Metal Bat's reactive evolution is better than Garou's. And he's physically stronger so Garou stating that makes sense.

      Also Lightspeed pretty much got fodderized by Monster Garou for the most part.

      Him getting fodderized is irrelevant. He still was considered stronger than Human Garou. Garou's adaptability is useless if his opponent can one-shot him.

      But again the idea remains that Garou cannot just use his Reactive Evolution or fighting skill to get out of a situation where someone had outmatched him considerable in strength. This has been shown and stated multiple times. And while not to the extent Monster Garou would to Human Garou, Satsuki does outclass him significantly in strength.

      What makes Satsuki so much stronger than Garou exactly? Even if Garou is at the bottom of mountain range AP(which he isn't), Satsuki still wouldn't be able to one-shot him and if she doesn't kill him in one hit, he'll evolve.

      As well having the manuerverability, flight and range advantage added on top of that. And she has defeated people with superior versions of his powers. So there's really not much going for Garou.

      Manuerverability? How is this useful if she has to eventually engage in CQC? Where Garou is significantly superior. She never fought Ryuko using regen and reactive evolution. And both of the evolutions are different, Garou's boosts his stats while Ryuko's gives her transformations.

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    • Again, you can't use the point of Garou can use his skills and powers to take down people stronger than him, when there are multiple instances in the series where people have beaten him with strength alone.

      And as for strength

      • Garou is stronger than his previous form, who slightly harmed someone Bang and Bomb can't harm. Bang can one shot a Dragon. Dragon is stronger than Demon level Beast King. Beast King is stronger than Armored Gorilla. Armored Gorilla is stronger than Mosquito Girl, who can one shot a City level.
      • Satsuki is much stronger than the combined power of the Elite 4.
      • Each member of the Elite 4 is so powerful, they can shoot an energy blast that doesn't don't even need to make contact with the COVERs to kill them. Merely being next to the blast can instantly one shot 6+ COVERs at once.
      • And a single COVER can one shot a Mountain level.

      Satsuki is a stronger level of Mountain. Her scaling is a lot more severe and the bottom level of the scaling is Mountain, whereas the bottom of Garou's is a City level.

      Ryuko also gains stat increases from taking severe damage like Garou. With the added ability to gain new powers with it. And regeneration is an automatic thing Ryuko has. She's always "using it." 

      Yes Garou is much better CQC. How does that matter when Garou can never make Satsuki fight him there? She can just fly up in the sky where he can't hit her and use invisible range attacks. Satsuki is not only much stronger but has greater control of the battlefield.

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    • Based on what I am reading here, I think Satuki would have a bigger chance of winning. And Garo's evolution may give him attack and speed, but giving speed is useless since speed is always equal because the thread poster says so.

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      Again, you can't use the point of Garou can use his skills and powers to take down people stronger than him, when there are multiple instances in the series where people have beaten him with strength alone.

      What I'm trying to say is that unless Satsuki can permanently put down Garou. He'll just regen and evolve. This isn't the first time he's done this neither. Most of his major battle starts with him getting stomp. But he still came out on top.

      Satsuki is a stronger level of Mountain. Her scaling is a lot more severe and the bottom level of the scaling is Mountain, whereas the bottom of Garou's is a City level.

      Again Garou was badly stomped before on many occasions. But he still was able to evolve and adapt to his opponents regardless.

      Ryuko also gains stat increases from taking damage like Garou. With the added ability to gain new powers with it. And regeneartion is an automatic thing Ryuko has. She's always "using it."

      It has been over a year since I watched the show. But I don't remember Satsuki fighting on par with Ryuko who's constantly regenerating and evolving during their battle. Cause this is exactly what Garou will be doing.

      Yes Garou is much better CQC. How does that matter when Garou can never make Satsuki fight him there. She can just fly up in the sky and use range attacks. Satsuki is not only much stronger but has greater control of the battlefield.

      I'm assuming standard battle assumptions is at play here. If so, both would have an in-character mindset. Fighting at long ranges is something Satsuki has never done before. And all she has for long ranges is energy and shock waves with some air slashes. You really think Garou can't evolve to resist that.

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    • You don't need to instantly one shot someone in order to permanantly put them down. And as I have said, Satsuki is more than strong enough to do so. Or she could just knock Garou out, which is a viable method to win and something one can do to Garou regardless of evolution or regeneration.

      Satsuki has on different occasions like Scarlet has said fought long distances and used flight to her advantage. This would be a factor within the match. And if she has never fight at long ranges, how would there even be examples of her having shockwaves and air slashes?

      You're using considerable NLF for Garou's Reactive Evolution, even though characters like Ryuko have far greater and more broken showings with it.

      Garou can't evolve to win against someone purely cause they didn't instakill him. His evolution doesn't allow him to tank "sharpened clothing" that has harmed people much more durable than him. And he can't resist a shockwave attack of equal speed to him and again much greater strength. 

      His evolution is literally just him getting stronger if he gets his ass kicked hard enough. It's really not that big of a deal and it won't negate any advantage one has over him.

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      You don't need to instantly one shot someone in order to permanantly put them down. And as I have said, Satsuki is more than strong enough to do so. Or she could just knock Garou out, which is a viable method to win and something one can do to Garou regardless of evolution or regeneration.

      As I stated above the gap in AP shouldn't be that large. Especially given that "Mountian level" isn't that large of a tier. I mean Ragyo is Low 6-C due to mountain level being that small of a tier.

      Satsuki has on different occasions like Scarlet has said fought long distances and used flight to her advantage. This would be a factor within the match,

      I didn't see anything regarding her fighting at long ranges.

      You're using complete NLF for Garou's Reactive Evolution, even thought characters like Ryuko have far greater and more broken showings with it.

      How exactly am I overrating reactive evolution? Everything I stated is on his profile. Both characters are in the same tier so Garou evolving to Satsuki's attacks shouldn't be out of reality.

      Garou can't evolve to win against someone purely cause they didn't instakill him. His evolution doesn't allow him to tank "sharpened clothing" that has harmed people much more durable than him. And he can't resist a shockwave attack of equal speed to him and again much greater strength. 

      He can most definitely can unless you have something that states otherwise. And he took energy blast equal so I don't see how he can't survive a shockwave that's stronger than him to an unknown degree.

      His evolution is literally just him getting stronger if he gets his ass kicked hard enough. It's really not that big of a deal and it won't negate any advantage one has over him.

      Umm almost every match where he got stomp his evolution negated the advantage. And don't forget about Garou's martial arts, which can reflect simple attacks.

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    • Satsuki is using all those long ranged weapons against Ryuko. And shockwaves are a standard part of her fighting that she uses.

      The gap of Mountain is actually rather small (10x) Ragyo and Satsuki or only having their tiers be treated somewhat conservatively. They are far stronger than Garou.

      • Garou is stronger than someone, who one shot someone, who's stronger than someone, who's stronger than someone, who's stronger than someone who one shot a City level.
      • Satsuki is stronger than 4 people, each of those 4 who instantly and effortlessly one shot 6 people at once, each of those 6 people can one shot a Mountain level.

      And you're overrating his Reactive Evolution as you keep on insisting he'll just evolve to resist all these powers, when in reality he just gets stronger. He doesn't gain magical immunity to a certain type of attack or tank someone far stronger than him. 

      Satsuki has far greater feats and is much stronger than Garou? Reactive Evolution.

      Satsuki's weapons harm people more durable than Garou? Reactive Evolution.

      Satsuki can fly and has far greater range? Reactive Evolution.

      Satsuki has beaten people with better Reactive Evolution than Garou? Reactive Evolution.

      He doesn't use his evolution like this. He uses it in order to get stronger after someone beats the crap out of him. Again something Ryuko can do as well.

      And are implying Satsuki needs to one shot Garou to kill him? She can simply beat him to death over time or knock him unconcious. Both of which are valid methods of victory and can't be handwaved away by saying "Reactive Evolution." Especially when dealing with someone that's beaten a person with much better Reactive Evolution than Garou.

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    • Ryukama wrote:
      Satsuki is using all those long ranged weapons against Ryuko. And shockwaves are a standard part of her fighting that she uses.

      I know, I'm just saying that mere air slashes and shocksaves shouldn't logically be enough to take down Garou who evolved to resist literal energy blasts.

      The gap of Mountain is actually rather small (10x) Ragyo and Satsuki or only having their tiers be treated somewhat conservatively. They are far stronger than Garou.

      That's kinda my point. Satsuki isn't exactly vaporizing Garou with just shockwaves. While me and you seem to have come to an agreement that Satsuki gets destroyed in CQC. So how exactly does she put him down before he closes the gap?

      And you're overrating his Reactive Evolution as you keep on insisting he'll just evolve to resist all these powers, when in reality he just gets stronger. He doesn't gain magical immunity to a certain type of attack or tank someone far stronger than him. 

      I don't recall saying he resist powers, only weapons and simple attacks like shockwaves. And he has shown gaining a resistance to attacks (ex. TankTop Master)

      And are implying Satsuki needs to one shot Garou to kill him? She can simply beat him to death over time or knock him unconcious. Both of which are valid methods of victory and can't be handwaved away by saying "Reactive Evolution." Especially when dealing with someone that's beaten a person with much better Reactive Evolution than Garou.

      How is she going to be constantly beating if he's growing stronger? As I stated before she never fought Ryuko using Reactive Evolution or Regeneration.

      Anyways we seem to be reiterating the same arguments. Maybe we should just agree to disagree and call it a day/night.

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    • If these shockwaves can harm Ryuko, they should be able to harm Garou as well. It's not a matter of a shockwave is lesser than an energy attack and Garou resists energy attacks.. It's a matter of shockwave has more AP than Garou can withstand.

      And no your point is that Satsuki isn't that much stronger than Garou. Which going by the reasons they have their ratings, she is.

      Reactive Evolution and Regeneration are automatic things Ryuko has. It's like saying someone wasn't "using" heart pumps or blinking. I guess you could say Ryuko evolve that much during the fight, but her evolution is still much better than Garou's and Garou can be killed regardless of his regeneration.

      Garou doesn't infinitely grow stronger to the point damage doesn't stack on him. When he was fighting Metal Bat, while there were times he was getting stronger, he was still wearing down and getting fatigued from the previous attacks.

      If Garou's powers are to work like you imply they would, he should instantly be healing and never showing any physical effects from a previous attacks he receieved. Yet against people like Metal Bat or Saitama, even though they didn't kill him in one hit, he still was injured from their past strikes.

      That's what Satsuki would do. Even if we're to say she doesn't one shot, an attack from her is going to damage Garou, then another, then another, then another until Garou can no longer withstand all the damage he is taking. Then he is either knocked unconcious or killed.

      But I am perfectly fine with no longer arguing this as well.

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    • Satsuki for the reasons above.

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    • Here's the thing, Garou likes to let fights go on to have himself get stronger. This would give Satsuki an advantage as she tends to go all out 100% of the time. She doesn't generally fool around ever in fights.

      His reactive evolution is only in rather small and simple increments, (Compared to his Monster form at least which were way more drastic,) at most he'll get stronger and more durable to a certain extent agaisnt Satsuki. He won't gain anything really fancy to counter act some of Satsuki's abilities she gets from using Junketsu.

      Right before he became a monster he had gotten his ribs broken by Superalloy Darkshine's simple tackle. He was also unable to redirect Darkshine's attack with  Water Stream Crushing Rock due to the sheer power in Darkshine's attacks. So it wouldn't work against moves with a  certain output of energy/force in them.

      Satsuki is at least on the same level of striking strength and AP as Superalloy Dakshine and likely quite a bit higher than him in both. She has superior range due to Bakuzan, and has flight which helps with mobility and just control of the battle due being able to abuse her range from a safe place compared to fighting purely on the ground. She also has her manipulation of Junketsu to aid in surprise attacks as she did against Ryuko in episode I believe 15 of Kill La Kill.

      It took someone of at least Base Ragyo's strength to break Bakuzan. I highly doubt Garou could reach that level in just one fight against Satsuki. Even then we have seen Satsuki without her sword(s) and she is very much capable of fighting without said weapon, she did so even when literally naked fending off several Covers by herself.

      She was able to face off against Ryuko in Ep 15, where at that point Ryuko was on Garou's level with arguably better reactive evolution and far better regen.

      Satsuki can keep him at bay with will-power generated shockwaves and air slashes, as she did on Uzu's gang in the flashback when she was gathering allies. Garou could possibly resist the force of them with his own will power, but it would still be something he'd have to deal with.

      Satsuki's is also a skilled stategist and tactician, so she could also learn Garou's fighting style to see how to counter it, not to the same extent as Garou can obviously, but she is the leader of an army and only really lost to her mom who is ridiculously more stronger/faster than her.

      While Garou can gain access to his opponent's fighting styles and techniques, this wouldn't work as well in his favor because...Satsuki fights with a sword and isn't primarily h2h like most of Garou's opponents were.

      From this, I see Satsuki winning. She is at least on the same level of strength as Superalloy and likely higher who before turning into a monster, Garou had difficulty with. This plus more range on her end and flight alone gives her the win with some difficulty, nothing too hard, but not too easy.

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    • Satsuki. Human Garou cannot beat her, cause he is at a big disadvantage. 1. He's melee and his enemy can fly. 2. Apparently his enemy is stronger than he can evolve.  If his enemy is careless, then he may turn the tide of battle just like what he did to TTM, Darky, and Spring Mustache, but IDT that's in character for Satsuki.

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    • I won't bother to count the votes. I just know Satsuki has won. I'll wait for the grace period.

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    • I counted 8-2. And it's been over a day grace period now. I'll be adding the results.

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