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  • CrossverseCrisis
    CrossverseCrisis closed this thread because:
    Concluded
    17:07, September 4, 2016

    So should Hulk,Sentry and anyone around this range in Marvel scale to Thor's FTL+ combat speed rather than Spiderman's?

    Also Should the Hulk have MFTL travel speed since he can jump from planet to planet though this might just be a misconception I had?

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    • I agree with scaling to Thor's feat.

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    • 1) Yes

      2) Dunno

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    • Definitely for the former. I'm not sure about the latter. Might get inconsistent.

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    • Though Hulk, Sentry, and whoever are scaled via the databook, i actually feel that the FTL+ is more preferable if anything.

      Then again, i suppose this may also be because that Spiderman has shown able to at least keep up with HulK which would make him FTL+? IDEK what i'm saying on that....

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    • Hulk can keep up with them as 4-B so i'm guessing we wasn't sufficiently enraged when fighting spidy.

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    • So Hulk should be upgrade to FTL+ when enraged?

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    • @Radical: That can make sense. Sufficiently enraged FTL+ Hulk (capable of keeping up with Thor and Silver Surfer)? Also i recall seeing a scan of Hulk tagging Quicksilver one time which iirc we have him as high as FTL+ here too like Thor having his FTL+ scale.

      Not sure if that last part helps to this, tho. Just randomly throwing it out here.

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    • @Cross Yeah might of just been a misconception I had

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    • Hmm. Now that i think about it, wouldn't this also apply to characters like Odin and Zeus of Marvel to have this as well? I know that Zeus curbstomped Hulk. That's a fact. Not sure if he did anything speed-wise there when that happened.

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    • It was probably due to having higher AP at the time since the only time Hulk to my knowledge has been able to keep with these guys was in WWH.

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    • Oh okay nevermind then.

      But still it seems strange to have like say, Hulk and Sentry, FTL+ from Thor yet not have it for the more stronger Marvel gods like Mikaboshi, Odin, and Zeus. Well you did say "anyone else" so...yeah.

      I mean FTL+ is slow for them in Tier 3 but at least it's better than having them at MHS+(?) speeds...

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    • CrossverseCrisis wrote: I mean FTL+ is slow for them in Tier 3 but at least it's better than having them at MHS+(?) speeds...

      Pretty much my thoughts when I saw MHS+ Hulk,Sentry,Odin,etc.

      I know it's a result of Marvel being inconsistent forcing us to use the handbooks,which are unreliable at best.

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    • ^Indeed, man. But that's literally what we have to scale them by at the very least else we may, at worst, have to put them at unknown. Which is very bad as all heck....

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    • Well if the Marvel handbooks are saying hulk and thor are MHS then cant we take the FTL feats of Thor as outliners. There are plenty of occasions when thor has been speed-blitzed by street level characters. Also unlike DC Marvel makes a clear distinction between combat speed and travel speed.

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    • -BANLK- wrote: Well if the Marvel handbooks are saying hulk and thor are MHS then cant we take the FTL feats of Thor as outliners. There are plenty of occasions when thor has been speed-blitzed by street level characters. Also unlike DC Marvel makes a clear distinction between combat speed and travel speed. It's up to the staff and antvasima to decide on this one but I support the FTL proposition, and I hope my comment can help to further elevate it.

      But it's not like their FTL feats are inconsistent, hulk has been able to rest or attack Thor,silver surfer, Hyperion, sentry and other incredibly fast beings. Take for example in the world war hulk issue #4 I believe he was able to punch sentry while sentry was going super fast flying towards him. You also have to remember that in the comics Thor has explained and stated he alswys holds back on earth and mortals. This has been repeated multiple times. Same with the hulk, hulk has always held back on almost literally everyone, one issue even had Amadeus cho state that hulk mathematically in his head controls where his attacks go and hit to make sure no civilian around him is hurt. When the hulk finally being dead serious on fighting the FF he broke the things arms, the point is the comics give simple by reasonable reasons why sometimes lower level beings can fight them on occasions, theirs also the fact marvel likes to be inconsistent and PIS with its character fights.

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    • Marvel characters are almost impossible to scale. They are generally displayed at far lower speed levels than we currently rate them at, yet we go by a few higher feats, that are likely outliers in the most cases.

      The problem is that Thor is only rated at "Superhuman" speed in the handbooks, along with an awful lot of other characters. Even rating them as Massively Hypersonic by scaling from a very unusual feat from Spider-Man is debatable, but rating them all as FTL+ seems extremely outlandish.

      For more information you can check out this page.

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    • Basically, with the second speed ratings for Thor and The Silver Surfer, we admit that the handbooks may have placed them in the wrong speed tier.

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    • The Sentry may very well be comparable to both of them though.

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    • I think it's better to scale Thor with character who can perform MFTL+ feats casually,Sentry,Odin,Mikaboshi,etc, where as other like Rhino,Green goblin and such should scale to Spidy as they haven't shown to be able to ever even get close to these levels of speed on their own.

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    • Well, the problem is that Spider-Man is consistently shown as able to avoid most attacks from the Hulk during confrontations, who in turn is consistently shown as comparable in speed to Thor and the Sentry.

      Marvel does not make any sense whatsoever, and I am constantly scratching my head wondering what we should do with the statistics, as they turn out badly, no matter which approach that we take.

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    • I agree Ant however due to nature of the line "The madder Hulk gets the Hulk Stronger is" arthur's make the Hulk as strong as they want him to be and even then Spider Man already has Relativistic reaction speed.

      I understand if wish to keep the speed as it though.

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    • Why don't you make the speed MHS, possibly FTL for all the characters scaled to Thor.

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    • Well, I suppose that might work.

      Although, officially, according to Tom Brevoort, Thor is currently considered as slower than Wolverine... despite that the handbook says that he is not.

      Still, I suppose that it might be an idea to scale Beta Ray Bill, Hercules, Hulk, Sentry, Odin, and Zeus to Thor, and the Heralds of Galactus, and some Elders of the Universe to the Silver Surfer. Have I forgotten any?

      Just remember, that officially these characters are not supposed to be very swift at all. Barely superhuman in fact.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Although, officially, according to Tom Brevoort, Thor is currently considered as slower than Wolverine... despite that the handbook says that he is not.

      "Sigh" Why do you this Marvel...

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    • Wait isn't Wolverine only supersonic?

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    • So, which of the following characters should we scale from Thor and the Silver Surfer?

      http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Marvel_Comics

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    • Galactus

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    • Yes. But we need a more complete list.

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    • And this is why i rarely debate comics if ever...gee whiz....

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    • Yes. Tell me about it. :(

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    • I'd think we should scale cosmics, higher beings to Thor in FTL+ speed, including Odin, Sentry, BRB, Thanos, Bor, Chaos King, Hyperion, Surtur, Champ of the verse, Those who park their asses in the shadows, Galactus (though it won't be noticable since Galactus is huge)...

      Scaling to Surfer's FTL maybe lower cosmics, Planet level and beyond threats and space-guys like: Gladiator (when sufficiently confident), Herc, Loki, Destroyer, Hulk (when sufficiently enraged), Nova, the other heralds, Mangog

      Maybe we can have something like: Handbook scaling speed, Potentially maybe logical powerscaling speed

      Anyways, yeah. That's my opinion of how to make sense with it. And I for one ignore Brevoort entirely since his answers are weird and often not answer the question entirely if at all, but that's just me.

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    • Well, an alternative future version of Gladiator has a very MFTL+ speed feat, and our power-scaling from Thor and the Surfer should probably go by which characters that are able to consistently keep up with them, but I suppose that "Handbook Scaling speed" and "Power-scaling speed" might work.

      As for Brevoort, I don't like him as a person anymore (see the history in my Tumblr blog to see why), but he is still the person who actually gets to decide which characters that are officially stronger or weaker in comparison to the rest, so we have no choice but to listen to him to a degree.

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    • I don't like Brevoort one bit, but he's official so I just get the barest idea from him, but I take what he says with a sack of salt. There should've been other people before him that judge that stuff right?

      Well, if we go by listening to him, then all Asgardians get MHS+/FTL+ scaling from Thor since when I asked him once about how fast Thor's reflexes are, he answered to me that "He's about as fast as an average Asgardian." Well, that or Thor scales down to an average Asgardian in speed.

      On that note, are we really scaling them from Spidey's actual reflexes, or Spider sense reactions?

      Anyways, shouldn't we have an Alter future Glad tab in his profile? Or is that version one with too many unknowns?

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    • Brevoort is the one who has been Marvel's go-to continuity expert for over two decades. Before him, it was the late Mark Gruenwald.

      Thor and the Asgardians actually are of comparable speed according to the handbooks, and most of Thor's fights with them.

      We are scaling them from one of Spider-Man's highest combat speed feats.

      Alternative future Gladiator was at least thousands of years older, and only appeared briefly in one story (the same one in which Galactus almost started to consume the entire timeline).

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    • Iirc, correct me if I'm wrong, but most of Thor's biggest speed feats is from before 20 years ago right? Well, other than the whole prayer thing where Thor flew 48,880,800,000,000,000c.

      So, Potentially FTL+ Asgardians then?

      I see, so Future Alter Glad is too obscure/unknown/uncared for to be added, yes?

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    • Possibly, although again, this is Marvel. Almost every single character is automatically scaled down in every way to almost match whoever their opponent happens to be at the time.

      According to Walter Simonson, this is even a policy, or at least it was when he was working at Marvel.

      Future Gladiator is an extremely redundant derivation, yes, and as such not remotely notable enough to get his own profile.

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    • Well yeah. Stupid Marvel. So, handbook scaling then potentially scaling to their logical equals then?

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    • @All: Yeah this is why i never get into comic debating and scaling. I've had so many talks with Ant about this to know that no matter what we may come up with for this verse, it becomes a mess. Like equivalent to cleaning out a warehouse.....yeah.

      Anyways i think we could get into a compromise of this by using Gemmy's idea. Logically speaking despite the massive inconsistency that is Marvel itself, it doesn't feel right to have someone like Odin (for example) be slower than his own son Thor if you look at their pages. Same with Zeus and Mikaboshi. So something that Gemmy proposed earlier sounds good enough in my opinion.

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    • Ok just got back from work.

      I agree with what Gemmysaur proposed.

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    • I think the big issue with speed here is that, unlike DC, Marvel's "poster boys" are street levellers. As such, whenever a street-level hero goes up against, say, Silver Surfer, they tend to have a speed advantage but much less strength. They gotta look good after all.

      But on the other end of this, we know that cosmic characters should be FTL from their feats. Yet listing Captain America as FTL for dodging Thanos' attacks is really stupid, when it's more likely he was jobbing because he was fighting, well, Captain America.

      Because of this I propose that we get feats from standalone comics and non-scaling feats. Now, if a character has 0 feats for themselves and all they have is "fought Silver Surfer", then yes we would scale them because that's all we have. But scaling should always be the very far below second priority. If you give it too much credence you get things like the aforementioned "Hulk = Thor = Silver Surfer < Spider-Man".

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    • @LordXcano: So your saying that we should gets that are standalone and don't scale to others or...?

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    • I agree with Gemmysaur.

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    • LordXcano wrote:

      I propose that we get feats from standalone comics and non-scaling feats. Now, if a character has 0 feats for themselves and all they have is "fought Silver Surfer", then yes we would scale them because that's all we have.

      Problem is, there are others who are too difficult to find a good speed feat for e.g. Black Bolt afaik so I suggested the whole <handbook scaling>, Potentially <logical powerscaling>.

      We could always have those with usable feats replace <logical powerscaling> with <calced feat>, as is the case with Thor and Surfer at the moment.

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    • CrossverseCrisis wrote:
      @LordXcano: So your saying that we should gets that are standalone and don't scale to others or...?


      I'm saying scaling can be used but it'd be second-hand justification for a stat rather than a primary. A standalone feat doesn't have to scale to others, I'm just talking like "Character X ran Mach 5" rather than "Character X = Character Y who is Mach 5".

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    • I see.

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    • Well, most Marvel characters do not have any impressive speed feats, so we would have to place them at "Unknown", without either handbook scaling or consistency scaling.

      Of course, the problem is that every single character may end up scaled to Thor's FTL+ speed feat othervise...

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    • Hmmm.

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    • My apologies. I have edited out the off-topic part of my last post.

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    • Antvasima wrote: My apologies. I have edited out the off-topic part of my last post.

      It alright, now back to the topic. I have a good hulk reaction speed feat of him punching sentry while he was flying at incredibly fast speeds. If I can get it calc'd could we scale that to the others? or only just him.

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    • Okay. Well then again i can somewhat see how this would be a problem no matter what alternative we take of this.

      Then again: Marvel's a pretty damn mess in terms of scaling. I've never seen this much inconsistency on anywhere else. It also pisses me off, in all honesty, to not have Odin be higher than Spidey's level.

      (Sigh)

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    • Well, if you are talking about World War Hulk, then I do not believe that Sentry ever went FTL during his flight, so I doubt that it would be useful.

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    • @cross agreed, I didn't want to say anything since I know about the marvel issues we have with scaling, but seeing thanos be listed at the same speed as Spiderman made me a little frustrated. I'm glad radical did this thread Ife been wanting to talk about this for a while now. Just didn't think it go this smoothly.

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    • Well i'm just speaking out in all honesty here. Me and Antvasima have discussed this many times before and we both know how stupid Marvel is in scaling their characters compared to other franchises like KH, DB, Bleach, PMMM, JJBA, HnK, Toriko, etc.

      But it makes sense because we're dealing with a long running series of comics made by various writers. So it makese sense why scaling this verse accurately, if possible, would be a huge issue for all of us.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Well, if you are ralking about World War Hulk, then I do not believe that Sentry ever went FTL during his flight, so I doubt that it would be useful.

      Yes it is WWH, however I wouldn't take it off the table the fact he was charging at full speed in his somewhat unstable form. Theirs also the fact he's capable of baiting characters like Thor,gladiator and Hyperion in the past. And this was a sentry who wanted too severely hurt the hulk by any means necessary. We can least say he was going SOl

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    • Well, we could go with Gemmysaur's suggestion of two scaling options for several profiles. The question is just which ones that we should scale from Thor and the Surfer? We basically need a list.

      http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Marvel_Comics

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    • @ant I can help start the list

      For people(non cosmic/sky father level beings scaling to Thor:

      Hulk

      Sentry

      Gladiator

      Hercules

      Ares

      Hyperion

      Doctor doom

      Ultron

      Juggernaut

      Black bolt

      Thing?

      Beta Ray bill

      Red she hulk

      She hulk?

      A bomb

      Super skull

      Blue marvel

      Namor

      Terrax

      Drax

      Firelord

      Vulcan

      Jean grey

      Mangog

      Morg

      Abomination

      Cul boroson

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    • I suppose that Hulk, Sentry, Gladiator, Hercules, Ares, Hyperion, Beta Ray Bill, Blue Marvel, Terrax, Drax, and Firelord could technically scale from Thor (just keep in mind that officially most of them are barely superhuman in terms of speed), but am very uncertain about the rest.

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    • Namor has been able to go toe to toe with the hulk and iirc winning at least one of their fight,

      the thing has fought with hulk plenty of times and landed good strikes, including with Thor.

      Red she hulk has gone toe to toe with hulk at world breaker, thor has lost to red hulk, and has gone toe to toe with both hulk and Thor.

      She hulk and Abomb is up to you, they have fought these characters before but debatable if they scale

      Abomination same reasons as the thing, Mandog has beaten Thor, lean grey is an abstract being as the Phoenix so her using a little bit of the Phoenix force should be close to these guys dr strange has been able to react to high level beings,

      dr doom has been able to react to three celestials firing a beam at him, so he should scale to these guys.

      Vulcan is on similar levels with people like Hyperion and gladiator. So far that's my explanation for them

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    • Quick question could wolverine somewhat scale? He has tagged and surpher Thor before, blitz grey hulk in berserker form, and I believe tag quicksilver in the past though the latter might be wrong. Or would he only be scaled to Spiderman

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    • Well, as I mentioned, this is the problem with using power-scaling via every single matchup for Marvel. Since every single character is generally scaled down to a similar level of speed and power to the opponents during matchups, at the end we end up with a universe full of FTL+ statistics for everybody, even characters with supposedly human bodies, like Doctor Doom, Doctor Strange, and Jean Grey.

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    • Antvasima wrote: Well, as I mentioned, this is the problem with using power-scaling via every single matchup for Marvel. Since every single character is generally scaled down to a similar level of speed and power to the opponents during matchups, at the end we end up with a universe full of FTL+ statistics for everybody.

      Oh I understand your concern, I just thought maybe wolverine would be a special case, but other than that any street level characters or mid characters like Luke cage should only scale to Spiderman. And the list I posted should be the ones who scale to Thor sicne they are all very high level characters in marvel.

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    • The point is that technically, going by the vast majority of their appearances, it is ridiculous to even place them all as high as Massively Hypersonic, much less FTL+.

      We are likely using a few outliers to scale a vast number of characters that do not come anywhere close to the speed statistics that we assign to them.

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    • As for characters like Doctor doom or strange they honestly should scale, like I said Doctor doom was able to react with three celestials firing a beam at him with his shields, and Doctor strange has been able to go on par and react with characters like umar and dormamamu in the past

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    • I am still very uncertain how to properly solve this problem.

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    • Antvasima wrote: I am still very uncertain how to properly solve this problem.

      Hmmmm, well we could only scale the cosmic tiers like the ones you agreed on first, then make all the cosmic sky father level beings like Odin and Zeus etc scale to Thor for obvious reason then keep for now the others ratings op until we can properly evaluate who else can be at this level of speed.

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    • Doom reacting to Celestials seems like the kind of nonsensical gibberish outliers that are Marvel's trademark, and Doctor Strange is still generally shown as inferior in speed to street level characters such as Wong.

      Mind you, I still think that we are placing the Marvel character speeds ridiculously high, given that their general showings are subsonic at best, so I have highlighted this thread for more input.

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    • @antvasima, I suppose that makes sense, so that is a no on Both doctors, that is fine how about the characters like Mandog,abomination, and anihilus?

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    • Scaling to Thor's FTL+

      Space dudes like BRB, Thanos, Champion of the Universe, Galactus, Super Skrull...

      Myth dudes like Odin, Bor, Chaos King, Surtur,  Those who lie on their behinds in the shadows, Cul, Loki and the Asgardians, Hercules, the other Skyfathers...

      Earth dudes like Hyperion, Sentry, Ultron, Hulk (only when sufficiently fan-hitting turd level enraged, else, watered down to his MHS rating at mildly pissed), Blue Marvel, Abomination (probably since he's a threat to Hulk but is he really?)...

      Scaling from Surfer's FTL (Why he doesn't simply scale to Thor eludes me since he should technically be faster by portrayal afaik)

      Fellow heralds like Terrax, Firelord, Morg, Stardust...

      Space dudes like Gladiator (sufficiently confident), Nova (guessing this only), Annihilus (probably after absorbing stuff like Hulk's strength and getting to par with Thanos)...

      Myth dudes like empty Destroyer, Mangog (who's only threat is his strength and durability anyway)... 

      Earth dudes like Namor (he's a threat but I remember him being knocked silly by Thor on accident while raining), Black Bolt (guessing)...

      Ares (though I don't remember him matching a herald level being in combat though he did nail Hermes' foot midrun; else, scale to Iron Man's sub-rel+ since he's the guy who most frequently get the sharp end of Ares' weapon or the guy who gives thoughts on him afaik; though he could also be FTL+ given his statement that he's faster but weaker than Herc) ...he's weird like that.


      Anyways, tried again to make a list. The others not listed, I am unsure as I know extremely little of them, do not care about them or have not seen them at all.

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    • I suppose that most of these could scale to Thor, yes, including the Surfer. It is probably safest to only scale the characters that have consistently been able to keep up with either of them.

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    • I agree with what Gemmy put, tbh. I mean it MAY not be perfect and we're still likely to get complaints about this in any other way, but i like it better than to just get constant comments of "why Odin MHS when he has MFTL+ feats?" or whatever.

      It's just that annoying, retarded, and downright ridiculous to deal with. Like either this or just straight up put them back to Unknown....

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    • Marvel is probably the most inconsistent fictional series ever made. It makes other Comic Book Series like DC and Image, which are already inconsistent, seem logical by comparison.

      Frankly, I really don't know how we can approach Marvel characters. We should at best look at individual feats from characters and see if they are consistent with one another.

      Character Scaling in Marvel is simply ridiculous. You can end up with 1-B Captain America doing it (Not an exaggeration, it's actually possible)

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    • @Matthew: Isn't that what we've been sort of doing still tho?

      And yeah, that's pretty much what Antvasima has told me so many times. When it comes to Marvel's scaling, it's just plain ridiculous. Like no way can we ever get through with this damn verse and all of it's scaling problems.

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    • Yes. It is completely nonsensical gibberish in terms of anything remotely resembling coherent logic.

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    • NOP,they should be not scaled

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    • Strmix wrote:
      NOP,they should be not scaled

      Care to explain why? And who you are talking about that should not be scaled for that matter.

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    • 1.Idk,because i dont know what FTL+ means.XD

      2.Hulk can leap that far,but that dosnt mean he can run fast or jump between planets with extreme speed(if you want to correct me there,please do)

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    • FTL mean "Faster than light"

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    • I am fine with scaling the other characters to the FTL+ feats, as long as it remains possibly.

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    • oh,ok.If you mean in pure running speed,Hulk and Sentry outrun/fly Spidey.In terms of reactions,Spidey's miles faster because of his spider sense.

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    • To be completely fair, Marvel does have an excuse to be inconsistent. It's been running for 70+ years. Anything with that much runtime is bound to have a ton of inconsistencies. Other than DC, which is almost as inconsistent, it's probably the longest running thing on here. I can't think of any anime, video game (for obvious reasons), cartoon, or book series otherwise.

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    • Well, the issue is that they are not even attempting to be remotely consistent. The same writer can let a character have equal trouble with tiers 8-C and 3-B, just to use Jason Aaron's recent Thor run as an example.

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    • @Howard

      As a DC Comics fan moreso than Marvel, I can say that they are generally not nearly as inconsistent as Marvel is.

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    • @Matthew Schroeder:

      Nothing is as inconsistent as Marvel. They're the dictionary definition of it.

      @Skyblade743:

      Hulk will need serious speed to jump between planets, though not necessarily FTL.

      Also, Spidey may generally be portrayed as having better reflexes, but the likes of Thor has high-end feats that laughs at Spidey's. Which is again, inconsistent. I remember the days when Thor was swinging the hammer twice lightspeed and throwing it far, far, far faster. I also remember the days when Sentry didn't exist.

      @The real cal howard

      It's excusable to an extent I guess, since Naruto has been running what? 15 years? And it's plagued with retcons and inconsistencies. Hell, Pokemon has numerous inconsistencies in 1 season. But, what sets Marvel apart from DC that makes it far, far more inconsistent is because they have no reboots. Only retcons.

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    • Don't get me wrong. I agree with you guys. Just having an excuse doesn't make it excusable.

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    • Depends on range between planets

      Spidey's only faster becaus he has an inbuilt danger sense.Without it,he's honestly pretty slow compared to the likes of Sentry

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    • So, to start with, is anybody willing to add "Possibly FTL+, scaling from Thor" to the following profiles?

      Hulk, Sentry, Gladiator, Hercules, Ares, Hyperion, Beta Ray Bill, Blue Marvel, Terrax, Drax, Firelord, Destroyer, Mangog, Champion, Thanos, Zeus, Odin, Uatu, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Bor, Chaos King, Surtur, Those Who Sit Above In Shadows, Chaos King, Cul, Loki, Heimdal, Balder, Morg, Stardust, Nova, Annihilus

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    • All these guys are cosmic level guys, right? If so, then yes. Though I'd agree with the person who said Jean Grey should scale. Obviously, not base.

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    • I'm fine with them being possibly FTL+ (scaled from Thor) as long as they get something from here.

      We keep the MHS or whatever rating their pages, yes? Just to be sure in case i end up deleting it by mistake...

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    • Yes. They keep the MHS. I think it was "Possibly" FTL+.

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    • Yes. We keep the old ratings as well. Jean Grey Phoenix has never interacted much with other cosmic characters, although she did beat up Firelord once, early in her career.

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    • Alrighty. And i see that it's 34 of them, eh? Not bad. Would have liked it from another of our staff to do (for them to have more contributions...not a selfish guy).

      However like with that Sonic thread from earlier, i don't mind actually doing this if nobody of our staff or whatever is not too preoccupied atm.

      I can put this as "(scaled from Thor)" for the reasoning, yes?

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    • "Possibly FTL+, scaling from Thor" is fine, yes.

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    • I think that's all of them that are to updated on this, Antvasima.

      Cropfist has helped out on this too as that took half of that workload here which i thank him for.

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    • Okay. Thank you both for the help.

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    • No problem. Had to make some minor adjustments on a few of them but managed to work it out there.

      I don't think there's anything else to talk about here. At least a select number of them have been updated with this so i believe the thread can safely be closed...

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    • Okay then.

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    • Antvasima wrote:
      Well, most Marvel characters do not have any impressive speed feats, so we would have to place them at "Unknown", without either handbook scaling or consistency scaling.

      Of course, the problem is that every single character may end up scaled to Thor's FTL+ speed feat othervise...

      I'm aware this has been settled but EM on Narutoforums has found a lot of good speed feats.

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    • Endless Mike makes good calcs for Marvel, honestly.

      Like how Hawkeye is Supersonic+ or Thor being FTL....very consistent of Thor. He also has some MHS+ and/or Sub-Rela feats or higher too. But he's also consistently FTL going by EM's calc's. FTL+ is the highest we use for him tho but eh...

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