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  • Why so serious...

    Runeterra's resident psychopathic murderer demon jester has chosen his next target; The Clown Prince of Crime. But Shaco, in all of his twisted Shaconess, tries to instill paranoia by making the Joker aware of his presence, allowing the Joker to prepare for the inevitable encounter. Joker gets 1 hour of prep time to gather whatever he can to take on Shaco. Emperor Joker and Joker Mask are restricted. Both are in character and have no prior knowledge of each other besides what they look like. Victory by death and death alone. Takes place in an abandoned carnival. Who wins?

    Shaco - 0 Joker - 3

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    • Boop

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    • Assuming stats are equalized (given the fact that Shaco is way faster, stronger, and tougher than Joker and has the ability of teleportation and invisibility) I'd say Joker since he took down Superman in two minutes with an hour's prep when Luthor failed with the greatest military technology available.

      Plus, as of Batman: Endgame he has his own Lazarus Pit on top of literally capturing the entire Bat-Family, chopping off Alfred's hand, getting some regeneration (doesn't flinch from shotgun rounds or having his eye gouged out), and is skilled enough in close combat to kick Nightwing's rear into next week.

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    • Yeah stats are equalized, although he managed to take down Superman so quickly because Supes has an exploitable weakness, whereas Shaco is only limited by mana (which may or may not even apply in an actual fight). And Shaco is pretty damn skilled himself seeing as he fights extremely powerful and skilled beings on a daily basis.

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    • True, but the regen factor ought to work to some effect.

      Plus, Shaco's usual toxins and scare tactics won't work since Joker has seen them all, on top of the fact that Joker is rather crazy prepared and a mad chemist. One puff of Joker Toxin and Shaco's out.

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    • Joker wins, because Shaco is in a game, and must be balanced and have limited power/abilities. Joker on the other hand has freedom in the sense of comics, movies and the like.

      Specifics: Shaco only has the power to do increased damage when people are facing away from him, teleport and make himself invisible at the same time, drop jack-in-the-boxes that will fear enemies (make them turn away and slowly move away from the box), throw a shiv (when physically attacking, passively poisons enemies so they move slower, throwing is effectively a ranged version, but disables the passive for a short time), and duplicate himself (said duplicate is pretty much a carbon copy but can't use any abilities, but can attack and explodes when killed or expires). No notable stats (not particularly strong, fast or durable, but can be cunning).

      Not going to put feats for the joker, you guys know him better than I do. But the joker has more freedom to do whatever he wants, with all those poisons made from household stuff, and how he keeps managing to stay on top despite going up against these superpowered foes.

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    • Nice common theme of being demonic clowns, though. Personally like the Joker more, he's more fun / funny, and gets laughs too, even without the laughing gas.

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    • N52 Joker basically soloed the Justice League with prep. And it was with things he can put his hands on very quickly.

      My vote goes for him.

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    • Reppuzan wrote:
      True, but the regen factor ought to work to some effect.

      Plus, Shaco's usual toxins and scare tactics won't work since Joker has seen them all, on top of the fact that Joker is rather crazy prepared and a mad chemist. One puff of Joker Toxin and Shaco's out.


      I don't doubt that it would help. And btw Shaco's "usual" toxin is an extremely potent soul-killing poison. Plus Shaco can always use his double as a decoy and backstab the Joker from behind while he's invisible.

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    • Continuing with Reppuzan's stuff: Most poisons will probably have no effect on the Joker, considering how much poison he works with, and his own basic immunity to most poisons. Attempting to scare the Joker is just another joke to him, and pointless. Shiv throwing is juggling to the mad clown prince, backstabbing does nothing because he's insane, and cloning himself only makes for more fun for the Joker.

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    • Whoa, whoa... when was this? I had no idea that Shaco's poison worked on the level fo the soul.

      Plus backstabbing only works so well with Joker's new regen factor. He ate buckshot point blank to the chest and merely smiled.

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    • Never read anywhere about Shaco possessing a soul killing poison. And insanity helps prevent people from being surprised (backstabbed) in the Joker's case. His insanity is what makes him more powerful and unique against most villians - he's just a common man, yet he bests most who go against him.

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    • Jucaslucas wrote:
      N52 Joker basically soloed the Justice League with prep. And it was with things he can put his hands on very quickly.

      My vote goes for him.

      This guy needs more kudos. And the Joker is hilarious, with this feat - he made the Justice League a mere joke that got beaten by a guy with no superpowers whatsoever besides insanity, and common items found in your average store. Kudos to the Joker, I will support him for life for this.

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    • Joker managed to mind control most of the Justice League with his toxin. Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman couldn't resist it. Even though Diana and Clark can easily resist the Amazo Virus and Brainiac's planetary tp attack.

      With 1 hour of prep, Joker puts his hands on it, and uses it on Shaco.

      How good is Shaco against mind control?

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    • Ghostly Owns wrote:
      Jucaslucas wrote:
      N52 Joker basically soloed the Justice League with prep. And it was with things he can put his hands on very quickly.

      My vote goes for him.

      This guy needs more kudos. And the Joker is hilarious, with this feat - he made the Justice League a mere joke that got beaten by a guy with no superpowers whatsoever besides insanity, and common items found in your average store. Kudos to the Joker, I will support him for life for this.

      You can't really make Joker's toxin with average store items.

      But yeah, it's op as hell. I remember an story with the Flash trying to stop a woman from stealing it. He was pretty scared of it, and said it was the most dangerous toxin in the world.

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    • Ghostly Owns wrote:
      Continuing with Reppuzan's stuff: Most poisons will probably have no effect on the Joker, considering how much poison he works with, and his own basic immunity to most poisons. Attempting to scare the Joker is just another joke to him, and pointless. Shiv throwing is juggling to the mad clown prince, backstabbing does nothing because he's insane, and cloning himself only makes for more fun for the Joker.

      Emphasis on most, Shaco's is laced with magic that poison's the target's soul. I agree most conventional poisons would be next to useless against him but I don't think he's ever dealt with poison like Shaco's. And I agree, scaring/surprising Joker would be useless as well. I would like to see how he would exactly deal with Shaco's teleportation and invisibility.
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    • Reppuzan wrote:
      Whoa, whoa... when was this? I had no idea that Shaco's poison worked on the level fo the soul.

      Plus backstabbing only works so well with Joker's new regen factor. He ate buckshot point blank to the chest and merely smiled.


      Yeah there was a journal about it some time ago. I'll try to find it in a few minutes

      The stabbing itself may not have any lasting effects but Shaco's daggers are covered in that poison

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    • Jucaslucas wrote: Joker managed to mind control most of the Justice League with his toxin. Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman couldn't resist it. Even though Diana and Clark can easily resist the Amazo Virus and Brainiac's planetary tp attack.

      With 1 hour of prep, Joker puts his hands on it, and uses it on Shaco.

      How good is Shaco against mind control?

      Mind control I'm not sure, but he has some serious resistance against mind-altering effects seeing as he is one of the only people in the world to be able to make contact with Fiddlesticks without going insane beyond recovery.

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    • WeeklyBattles wrote:

      Jucaslucas wrote: Joker managed to mind control most of the Justice League with his toxin. Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman couldn't resist it. Even though Diana and Clark can easily resist the Amazo Virus and Brainiac's planetary tp attack.

      With 1 hour of prep, Joker puts his hands on it, and uses it on Shaco.

      How good is Shaco against mind control?

      Mind control I'm not sure, but he has some serious resistance against mind-altering effects seeing as he is one of the only people in the world to be able to make contact with Fiddlesticks without going insane beyond recovery.

      Fiddlesticks makes people go insane with some power, or just because he scares te hell out of eveyone?

      And I still think that wouldn't be enough against Joker's toxin.

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    • Jucaslucas wrote:

      WeeklyBattles wrote:

      Jucaslucas wrote: Joker managed to mind control most of the Justice League with his toxin. Flash, Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman couldn't resist it. Even though Diana and Clark can easily resist the Amazo Virus and Brainiac's planetary tp attack.

      With 1 hour of prep, Joker puts his hands on it, and uses it on Shaco.

      How good is Shaco against mind control?

      Mind control I'm not sure, but he has some serious resistance against mind-altering effects seeing as he is one of the only people in the world to be able to make contact with Fiddlesticks without going insane beyond recovery.

      Fiddlesticks makes people go insane with some power, or just because he scares te hell out of eveyone?

      And I still think that wouldn't be enough against Joker's toxin.

      Just by looking a person in the eyes or even standing anywhere near him causes people to go completely, permanently, and irreversibly insane. It might be enough to resist Joker's toxin, it might not.

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    • Fiddlesticks has a special ability to inspire unnatural fear, unlike any normal fear a person would ever experience. People who go into fiddle's room usually never come back. Joker's toxins can have a variety of effects, that he can change down to minute qualities.

      Also just went through Shaco's background, both new/old. They never mention anything about a soul killing poison.

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    • Neither is trying to scare the other, they're trying to kill each other, though fear/paranoia helps. Unfortunately, neither has the ability to scare the other: Considering fiddlesticks's ability, it's unlikely a toxin will inspire fear in Shaco; likewise the Joker is insane and can only feel fear in specific circumstances (usually involving the batman, either dead or never existing).

      Basically, fear's out of the question.

      On killing methods, the Joker has WAY more than Shaco, hands down. I'd say a solid victory for the Joker because of his feats, while Shaco hasn't killed anyone special.

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    • Ghostly Owns wrote: Fiddlesticks has a special ability to inspire unnatural fear, unlike any normal fear a person would ever experience. People who go into fiddle's room usually never come back. Joker's toxins can have a variety of effects, that he can change down to minute qualities.

      Also just went through Shaco's background, both new/old. They never mention anything about a soul killing poison.

      It wasn't in his background it was in an issue of the Journal of Justice. One of the reporters was interviewing and was attacked by Shaco but...I may have misinterpreted what he meant by the poison carving into his very soul.

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    • Ya know...would Joker with prep time be able to make up for the gap in stats between the two?

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    • Well, he can casually defeat the Bat Family, solo the Justice League, I think he defeated the Teen Titans too, outsmarted Two Face, Penguin and Riddler, with the latter being able to take over Gotham and defeat Batman for fun.

      And that's only N52.

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    • So should i change it? It would be Street level, Peak Human Joker with prep tima and equipment vs MCB, Supersonic with High Hypersonic+ combat Shaco.

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    • Depends on how much prep.

      He could mind control entire cities and use the people as fodder, throw the toxin everywhere to mind control Shaco, while having some heavy weaponary as support.

      The problem is that Joker often relies on his enemies not willing to kill inocents to win, his only chance aside stealing tech from other people like Batman or Luthor, is to use the toxin.

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    • He gets one hour of prep time to get whatever he can to help him.

      Fodder might be able to slow him down a little but he can still teleport and become invisible, so if he wanted to he could just sneak around them (although knowing Shaco he would probably murder everyone even though he has a safer option). Then again he also has his clone that he could use as a decoy while he goes for Joker.

      Thing is Shaco has no problem with killing, he sometimes even does it just for fun. He once targeted a government official and then murdered his entire family just because it was funny to him.

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    • Again, it all depends on if Shaco can resist the toxin. That thing has city level AoE.

      It has worked on those N52 JL members, and I've seen scans of it working on Pre 52 MMH and Barry.

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    • Shaco has no recorded instance of showing any resistance to poison. Mindfuckery on the other hand, we have Fiddlesticks, who can induce insanity via overwhelming fear. I'd say complete insanity > mind control on the mental mindfuck scale.

      But I would say that the Joker wins even without the toxin being used on Shaco. If the Joker can bring in outside help (civilians), then Shaco will be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. Remember, Shaco pretty much murders alone, and not in a group.

      And the Joker's more creative than Shaco. All Shaco does is kill for fun, while the Joker does a lot more than just killing, and has outsmarted and beaten the best.

      Also, the Joker has a shitload of durability; he often gets beaten to the brink of death and still keeps coming for more.

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    • But he used mind control on people with much better resistance than Shaco.

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    • Jucaslucas wrote:
      But he used mind control on people with much better resistance than Shaco.

      yea,it has worked on MMH,supes and WW in the past,MMH is an atleast planetary level TP/mind control caster,supes and ww have feats of planetary TP/Mind control resistance.

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    • so... joker wins this one, right?

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    • Only with prep and if he's completely serious.

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    • A FANDOM user
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