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  • This is SSJ1 Kefla vs Hit. SSJ2 Kefla is restricted, 1 hour time limit applies, speed is equal.

    I can change to base Kefla if needed but I think, personally, that would be a tad unfair. Meh.

    Battle takes place on the ToP arena, they're both willing to kill. Who wins and why?

    Edgy Purple Assassin: 7

    Tingly Back: 2

    Inconclusive:

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    • If it's her 3-A variation then I go for HIt.

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    • it is her 3-A variation

      I'll need some reasons before I add your vote, por favor

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    • Hit’s time skip would keep improving and his time cage would be very useful against her, especially if it was very effective against Jiren. Also Hit is a strategic fighter and has insta kill moves.

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    • Previous thread was closed unfairly. AP means nothing here when he can easily phase through all of Kefla's attacks & make a hole in her chest. Or put her in a time-cage & finish her off

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    • bump. 

      @Jack I take it that was a vote?

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    • Hitto via time hax, experience, and putting a hole in keflas chest.

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    • @Gyro Yes I vote for Hitto

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    • bump

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    • bump

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    • Kefla due to a massive AP advantage. I know Hit has crazy techniques, but if an extremely supressed Jiren can break out of a time cage and Blue Goku can break out of Time Skip, Kefla in SSJ should be able to as well. As for insta-kill techniques, Kefla should be a lot faster, and therefore able to dodge them. Also, something like the one kick that knocked out SSJB KKx20 Goku should be enough to kill someone far more than 20x weaker. I'm not saying it's definie, but I give the edge to Kefla. Also, isn't SSJB Goku (post ultra-instinct sign) Low 2-C?

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    • Said supressed Jiren was Low 2-C and was still strained to break out (of time cage).

      SSJB Goku is only Low 2-C after 2nd UI sign for fighting Jiren. He would still be 3-A when fighting SSJ1 Kefla.

      Vote counted for AP and speed reasons

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    • Jiren had Low-Mid Regen which is the reason he wasn't affected from Hit's punch. Also he telikinetically stopped Hit from knocking him off the arena while frozen in the time-cage. Kefla has no countermeasures for these techniques. She's a simple brawler

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    • Hit via Jacks reasons

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    • JackJoyce wrote:
      Previous thread was closed unfairly. AP means nothing here when he can easily phase through all of Kefla's attacks & make a hole in her chest. Or put her in a time-cage & finish her off

      AP means everything when it becomes the sole reason so that he can't easily phase through Kefla's attacks, can't make a hole in her chest, neither put her in a time cage nor finish her off.

      Previous thread being closed was fully justified. 

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    • I see both sides here but do believe that hit has advantage over ss1 kefla. I've already voted but just pointing out that there is fair arguments on both sides.

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    • JackJoyce wrote:
      Jiren had Low-Mid Regen which is the reason he wasn't affected from Hit's punch. Also he telikinetically stopped Hit from knocking him off the arena while frozen in the time-cage. Kefla has no countermeasures for these techniques. She's a simple brawler

      @AKM sama Please read^

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    • I wasn't even referring to this post. I was referring to the one I quoted.

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    • bump

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    • bump

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    • Kalifa gets my vote since she should be able to break of his time stop easily compared to SSB goku and her huge ap advantage.  She also should have knowledge on his skills since they are from the same universe and on the same time as well

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    • I'm gonna be frank here.

      Hit takes this. Time stop, intangible/invisible attacks that ignore durability, and Time Cage.

      Kefla wouldn't know shit about Hit's powers beyond what Kale and Caulifla saw him do in the ToP--and Kale and Caulifla weren't present when Hit became intangible in an attempt to knock Dyspo off the stage, nor were they present/watching when Hit used his intangible ki blast on Jiren. She'd only know about the Time Cage and Time Skip/Stop.

      Kefla does not have Resistance to Time Manipulation, nor Precognition on her profile, which is what enabled Goku, who is a much better, more experienced martial artist, to "break out of" Hit's Time Manipulation. Hit also leads with Time Stop/Time Skip in every fight he's been in.

      The only reason Dyspo was able to use his speed to counter Hit was due to the fact that he could hear when Hit tensed up to use his Time Skip. Kefla doesn't have this advantage. So unless she blitzes immediately (is speed even equalized for this match?), Hit can and will kill her.

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    • "Kefla wouldn't know shit about Hit's powers beyond what Kale and Caulifla saw him do in the ToP--and Kale and Caulifla weren't present when Hit became intangible in an attempt to knock Dyspo off the stage, nor were they present/watching when Hit used his intangible ki blast on Jiren. She'd only know about the Time Cage and Time Skip/Stop."

      Caulifla and Kale were watching the fight between Dyspo and Hit. They'd know about the intangibility. Though it could be argued that Kefla won't be able to deal with it due to her severe lack of combat experience.

      "So unless she blitzes immediately (is speed even equalized for this match?)"

      Speed is equalized, though Dyspo was also able to blitz Hit due to his ability to increase his speed thousands of times in an instant.

      "Kalifa gets my vote since she should be able to break of his time stop easily compared to SSB goku and her huge ap advantage."

      Goku has resistance to time manipulation, Kefla does not.

      Also who's Kalifa ovo

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    • Nah going my vote for Hit FRA.

      Right now

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    • bump

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    • GyroNutz wrote:
      "Kefla wouldn't know shit about Hit's powers beyond what Kale and Caulifla saw him do in the ToP--and Kale and Caulifla weren't present when Hit became intangible in an attempt to knock Dyspo off the stage, nor were they present/watching when Hit used his intangible ki blast on Jiren. She'd only know about the Time Cage and Time Skip/Stop."

      Caulifla and Kale were watching the fight between Dyspo and Hit. They'd know about the intangibility. Though it could be argued that Kefla won't be able to deal with it due to her severe lack of combat experience.

      "So unless she blitzes immediately (is speed even equalized for this match?)"

      Speed is equalized, though Dyspo was also able to blitz Hit due to his ability to increase his speed thousands of times in an instant.

      To be fair, I can't be fucked to remember every single reaction shot in every single fight. >_>

      That being said, if speed is equalized, then absolutely there's no way for Kefla to handle Hit's time stop.

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    • Hit for reasons already stated

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    • grace starts now

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    • Kefla stomps. She was able to defeat a Kaiokenx20 Goku she will casually smash Hit's dimension and one shot him

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    • Xantospoc wrote:
      Kefla stomps. She was able to defeat a Kaiokenx20 Goku she will casually smash Hit's dimension and one shot him

      Explain to me how Kefla will smash Hit's dimension. Not even Goku could prevent Hit from going intangible.

      Not to mention, Kefla has none of Goku's skill/precog and resistance to Time Stop.

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    • A>B>C logic doesn't work here

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    • She does.

      Hit's timeskip works on raw power, no special skill and technique.

      Also Goku smashed through Hit's dimension with a Kahemahameha. Jiren did that as well with a simple punch. 

      And yes, A>B>C does apply here. Why? Because what Goku used is no special time/space breaking technique, no unique physiology, nothing. Hit was simply weaker than Goku and Goku's raw power overwhelmed said hax. Kelfa's raw power was casually above goku's at his strongest when Hit was somewhere between SSG and SSB during the fight with Dyspo, and higher against Jiren, but not by much. Heck, Hit's power actually can'tincrease all at onceand guess what? Kefla, who knows Hit's technique and has Caulfila's high adaptability (see how quickly she closed her gap with Goku in Martial Arts skills), hightened, would make mince meat out of the purple assassin quicker than your mistaken opinions

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    • Xantospoc wrote:
      -snip-

      ...Except Goku's resistance to Hit's time stop was solely based on his precognitive abilities in calculating where Hit was going to strike. Kefla has none of that. Read Goku's profile again before assuming that raw power alone is what broke through the Time Stop:

      Goku1



      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hit2


      A>B>C doesn't apply when you're dealing with hax. Kefla has no showings of resisting Time Stop like Goku and Jiren. Hit takes this with mid-high difficulty. Unless you can show a scan of Kefla resisting, you can't upscale resistances to hax.

      Before you say "but Kefla can just precog like Goku", how, again? Goku has way more combat experience, and that was pretty clear in all of his fights with Caulifla and Kale. All Kefla has going for her is power, and against Hit, that isn't enough. There's no statements of Kefla's power surpassing time like Jiren has, or anything like that. To assume she can pull off the same resistances is nothing but wank, whereas Hit has multiple options to kill her, most notably with his durability-negating intangible attacks.

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    • LOL Resistance to Time stop is separated. She won't get frozen into the first place. Also, yes, Caulfila has shown to be able to adapt very quickly.

      Again, she stomps

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    • Xantospoc wrote:
      LOL Resistance to Time stop is separated. She won't get frozen into the first place.

      Also, yes, Caulfila has shown to be able to adapt very quickly.

      Again, she stomps

      Yes, she will. She has no resistance to it, and Hit canonically leads with Time Stop. Speed is equalized, and Kefla doesn't possess Dyspo's hearing or speed amps, so there's no way she can blitz him before it happens.

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    • She DOES have resistance to it by virtue of being above Goku in raw power LOL

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    • GyroNutz wrote:
      A>B>C logic doesn't work here

      .

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    • Xantospoc wrote:
      She DOES have resistance to it by virtue of being above Goku in raw power LOL

      And as many people will be happy to tell you, that isn't how resistance works.

      If this wiki accepted your logic, "Resistance to Time Stop" would be listed on Kefla's profile. It isn't. You're using a textbook association fallacy.  https://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Fallacy#9._Association_fallacy

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    • But it is how it works! People who are above Hit surpass his Time Stop. Which is why he never used it against Goku in his rematch

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    • Xantospoc wrote:
      But it is how it works! People who are above Hit surpass his Time Stop. Which is why he never used it against Goku in his rematch

      Except that Goku had already displayed a resistance to it, ergo it was a worthless strategy. Now you're using a proof of example fallacy. Jiren had clearly beaten Goku, meaning Jiren had already displayed the strength necessary to beat Time Stop by your logic, but Hit tried to use Time Stop on him anyway.

      Strength =/= resistance to hax.

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    • Strength = Resistance to hax in Dragonball.

      And indeed, Champa wondered why Hit was doing that with Jiren and not only Jiren showed immunity but even smashed through Hit's dimension in combat.

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    • Jiren wasn't immune to time skip. Watch the fight again; he was clearly stopped while Hit performed time skip. 

      Yes, he beat time skip due to far superior reactions

      No, this doesn't apply to this battle as speed is equal

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    • Xantospoc wrote:
      Strength = Resistance to hax in Dragonball.

      And indeed, Champa wondered why Hit was doing that with Jiren and not only Jiren showed immunity but even smashed through Hit's dimension in combat.

      When did Jiren "smash through Hit's dimension"? Hit never went intangible during the fight. ​​​​

      And let me tell you, strength =/= resistance to hax on this wiki, unless you're a higher dimensional being.


      Even then, strength =/= resistance to hax even in Dragon Ball. Gohan was stronger than Dabura, but was still going to be turned to stone by his petrification spit hax.

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    • He did during the fight and he was immune. Pretty clearly. Watch the fight again

      Gohan wasn't > Dabura. Goku admitted they underestimated Darbura

      Secondly, Hit's hax has clearly shown to have a gap in power

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    • Korudo Daio wrote:

      When did Jiren "smash through Hit's dimension"? Hit never went intangible during the fight. ​​​​

      And let me tell you, strength =/= resistance to hax on this wiki, unless you're a higher dimensional being.


      Even then, strength =/= resistance to hax even in Dragon Ball. Gohan was stronger than Dabura, but was still going to be turned to stone by his petrification spit hax.

      Hit went intangible to phase through Jiren's punch. FFS intangibility & time skip are different abilities. Jiren was able to counter it because he had Precognition & better reaction speed.

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    • Jiren doesn't have precognition.

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    • He doesn't? It is removed from his profile dunno why

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    • JackJoyce wrote:
      He doesn't? It is removed from his profile dunno why

      Heck, I did the revision thread that involved that very topic.  Jiren having precog came from that scene of him not dodging the materials that Liquir sent flying when repairing the arena. However, we never get another moment like that or any elboration on that scene. So it was ruled as just fan theory. 

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    • TheC2 wrote:
      Vlcsnap-error553
      Vlcsnap-error655












      ..this one is also a good example

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    • I don't think this is precognition as much as him being a VERY VERY VERY VERY smart fighter

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    • How long does grace period have to be before it can be officially concluded?

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    • It has been officially concluded and can be requested

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    • If it's 3-A Kefla then I give it to Hit due to hax, superior skill, and the fact that he won't mess around and immediately go for the kill. 

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    • Super Saiyan Kefla destroys Hit.

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    • ...Hit. Goku was fighting at little to no stamina for that entire fight yet he fought SS Kefla with Blue. If Goku had the stamina to properly wield Blue Kaio-Ken, he would have curbstomped her with ease. Hit to contrast managed to adapt from a Blue Goku to tanking and damaging a X10 Blue Goku over the course of a single fight. Hit also (just before this) fought Jiren (who was fighting Post-UIO Goku) and managed to tank many blows and was the first person other than UIO Goku to score a direct blow against Jiren. Contrast with Kefla who was trashed every step of the way by UIO Goku and was only capable of blitzing a Base God Goku who had little to no stamina.

      If we go based on power scaling, we can probably assume her mults are still 50x and 100x for her power-up forms which means SS2 Kefla > SS Kefla > Blue Goku at minimal power > Base Kefla > Base God Goku fighting at minimal power (He only just got the stamina back to go God). Based upon this scaling, X3 Minimal Goku Blue should be roughly on a similar level to SS2 Kefla.

      So a full power, non-damaged Hit (Post-Jiren adaption) vs SS2 Kefla...? Yeah this is a stomp in Hit's favour. This isn't even including the fact that Kale is an awful fighter and that while Caulifa is a prodigy...she was still struggling to beat a minimal power base Goku with Super Saiyan 2! Compare that to freaking Hit who is one of the most skilled fighters in the entire series who could fight people several times his power with raw technique...I don't see how an unrefined SS2 Kefla who failed to defeat UIO Goku could defeat a full power post-Jiren Hit.

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    • This is already concluded, I’m just waiting for someone to add it to their profiles

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    • Who won the vote? Too lazy to read through the thread.

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    • Hit won, the results are even in the op lol

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    • Edgy Purple Assassin won? Since when is Widowmaker in this battle? xD

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    • So Hit is winning? That's rather weird, I'm going with Kefla in this one.

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    • Hit won, this should have been added a long time ago

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    • Kefla seems like they'd be able to circumvent Hit's time skip, my vote goes to Kefla

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote:
      ...Hit. Goku was fighting at little to no stamina for that entire fight yet he fought SS Kefla with Blue. If Goku had the stamina to properly wield Blue Kaio-Ken, he would have curbstomped her with ease. Hit to contrast managed to adapt from a Blue Goku to tanking and damaging a X10 Blue Goku over the course of a single fight. Hit also (just before this) fought Jiren (who was fighting Post-UIO Goku) and managed to tank many blows and was the first person other than UIO Goku to score a direct blow against Jiren. Contrast with Kefla who was trashed every step of the way by UIO Goku and was only capable of blitzing a Base God Goku who had little to no stamina.

      If we go based on power scaling, we can probably assume her mults are still 50x and 100x for her power-up forms which means SS2 Kefla > SS Kefla > Blue Goku at minimal power > Base Kefla > Base God Goku fighting at minimal power (He only just got the stamina back to go God). Based upon this scaling, X3 Minimal Goku Blue should be roughly on a similar level to SS2 Kefla.

      So a full power, non-damaged Hit (Post-Jiren adaption) vs SS2 Kefla...? Yeah this is a stomp in Hit's favour. This isn't even including the fact that Kale is an awful fighter and that while Caulifa is a prodigy...she was still struggling to beat a minimal power base Goku with Super Saiyan 2! Compare that to freaking Hit who is one of the most skilled fighters in the entire series who could fight people several times his power with raw technique...I don't see how an unrefined SS2 Kefla who failed to defeat UIO Goku could defeat a full power post-Jiren Hit.

      Wow that's easily the biggest bullshit i've ever read on this site(and i've read quite a lot here), SSJ2 Berserk Kefla would effortlesly lolstomp Hit and kill X3 SSJ Blue Full power Pre-UI Goku accidentally with a sneeze. Your mental gymnastics with stamina and using SSJ multipliers for different transformation in combo with baseless awful fighter claims just show your gigantic boner for Hit and hateboner for Kefla.

      With that being said, speed equalized SSJ1 Berserk Kefla vs Hit is a good fight and could go either way due to her being cocky and Hit absolutely not + his hax.

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    • we getting comments having argue talking about vote.

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    • How can a cocky Kefla with no hax win against an assassin with hax, more experience and skill?

      We don't apply Toriyama's rule about Power > Hax here so no. Kefla won't get any Time Stop resistance and she can't survive to a phasing-chest attack. 

      This is concluded anyway. 

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    • This is a necro, this should be closed.

      Won't be added anyway.

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    • Uh... why won’t it be added? Nothing’s changed since

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    • already grace end?

      what should you forget checked vote?

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    • Grace ended literally months ago and the results are in the op.

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    • well guess closed thread now.

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    • Hasn’t been added yet

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    • Fine now.

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    • Gunchar wrote:

      There's no reason to be rude. Are you just a fan of Kefla? I see no reason for claiming my post was bullshit nor did you even bother to explain why you think that way. Well, whatever. I honestly have no real interest in talking about it, I just noticed this in my inbox and got curious.

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    • CryoTheMayo wrote:
      Gunchar wrote:
      There's no reason to be rude. Are you just a fan of Kefla? I see no reason for claiming my post was bullshit nor did you even bother to explain why you think that way. Well, whatever. I honestly have no real interest in talking about it, I just noticed this in my inbox and got curious.

      Lol no i even think Kefla was pretty bullshit, but that's still no reason to go into full denial and start with some ridiculous mental gymnastics like you do. And i absolutely don't need to explain why a post that seriously puts up SSJ2 Berserk Kefla first against Hit who is far below the necessary power lvl to be a just halfway serious threat and then talks about SSJ Blue X3 Goku like he wouldn't be a complete joke in comparison, it's almost like to put up God Toppo against Android 17.

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    • ^^This is SSJ1 Kefla by the way. She's comparable to SSB Kaioken in terms of AP

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    • LSSJ1 Kefla is actually comparable to the Spirit Bomb which is basically a bit stronger than Post-1st UIS SSBKK.

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    • And Hit fought Jiren who's far above the Spirit Bomb

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    • Kefla wa mou shin deiru FRA

      ... The results are not added?

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    • Not yet no

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    • Jasonsith wrote:
      Kefla wa mou shin deiru FRA

      ... The results are not added?

      NAAAAAANNNNNIIIIIIII?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • A FANDOM user
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