I have no problem with you bringing it up. Even though I personally am for the regen, I'm willing to help revise it if you debunk it well enough .As I said, I'm more interested in accuracy than falsehood.
Well, whatever solution/consensus we get out of this - and if I am convinced otherwise myself - at least the regen will be for sure well established enough for me to tell that "Yeah, it's solid." if anyone ever asks in the future.
So no worries, I'll do my best to stay in line too.
Also no need to rush with the answers or anything either. Do it at your own pace, whenever you have the time.
If that's a problem you could even say that Iamunanimous may wait on the CRT as I'll avoid questioning it in threads now as we discuss it here.
For points you made regarding scans I don't yet have kodansha for, I will respond later to them. As I cannot properly argue them.
- Chaos and Star Seeds are two different entities. Star Seeds are the concept of life and hold the very essence of all a person is, while Chaos is the abstract of evil, darkness, and nothingness. He's also physically fused with the cauldron, and apparently has been able to resist any effects it would have on him. Comparing them is kind've iffy given how different their cases of dissolving would be based on their structure anyway. However, I can say that the star seeds when thrown into the cauldron, are "Melted" into it. Returning to the ocean of cosmic energy where they will be reincarnated. This happens probably instantaeously, going by how Cosmos mentions the Lambda power restored them to their "original" selves.
- It was the power of all the Star Seeds, in the galaxy cauldron, forming into the Cosmos Crystal. The Cosmos Crystal released the Lambda power which restored the entire cosmos, and would've regenerted them. However, this is interesting. Since how can the crystals form the cosmos crystal if they weren't even intact? I think this a plot inconsistancy.
- She mean't that nobody can permanently destroy the cauldron. Sailor Galaxia herself said that the cauldron would reappear in another galaxy, and that both light and darkness would return from it there. This however could be TPI, though the Galaxy Cauldron has demonstrated existing outside the confines of the universes time, as seen when it can send beings through space-time.
Apparently acheiving perfected form is the only way to exist within the cauldron whole.
As for it breaking things apart and scattering them, I rather think it melts them into its ocean of cosmic energy. And forms a new star seed from it, basically rendering the original obsolete and no longer existant.
Btw, I should mention I brought up Chaos possibly getting Infinite speed. This is due to him naturally existing prior to the cosmos, since he is its opposite entirely, and would've existed prior to it.
Which explains why he never got to become a "Star" via the galaxy cauldron. He never came from it.
Okay, done. I'll start with the easier part. In regards to speed I have no complaints. I could actually even see an Immeasurable coming along and wouldn't oppose it if well justified to some point. Either way, this part would be good news for me. I'll go by parts here to make it easier to separate.
- 1. I'm well aware, yes. Yesterday I kinda posted these scans since people were getting confused over the nature of Chaos. Unsure how different the Kodansha ones may be but either way we agree on this point. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6
This is the reason why I feel iffy about scaling the Lambda Power and Cosmos Crystal to every Senshi individually as it was a feat achieved through the combined powers of them all.
Therefore I can see Cosmos/Eternal Sailor Moon getting it yes, but as the Chaos does not rely on this power (it actually wanted to get this power too) and was defeated without coming back on a reasonable ammount of time and the Senshi can only achieve it through combining their powers, is what makes me think Cosmos keeps the Mid-Godly thanks to the Lambda Power and Cosmos Crystal while Chaos has Mid-Godly overtime based on the statement from Galaxia that even if the whole Cauldron was destroyed, it would emerge again somewhere, in due time.
While the Senshi individually... I don't think they should have it. It was a collective feat. Kind of like the Athena Exclamation in Saint Seiya where three gold saints combine their powers to unleash an attack much beyond their capacity.
- 3. I can take that as Galaxia did say another Cauldron would emerge even in the case where it would be destroyed, as the two statements do not go together otherwise. Nonetheless, the Cauldron in question was not destroyed at this time so that would still point to Chaos regenerating overtime.
- 4. That's one and there's actually the other in regards to Chaos. If you have the one for this page from Kodansha, I'd appreciate it. Either way, as I said above at this point it looks to me like Eternal Moon/Cosmos have it, Chaos has it overtime and the Senshi cannot be said to have it individually as it took all their powers combined for the Cosmos Crystal and Lambda Power for the feat of restoration.
- Well, this is strange. Since even if we go with they were broken apart and scattered, they logically should't be able to activate like that. Unless, they had already been reincarnated, and instead formed into the Cosmos Crystal that way. Then the Lambda power would've returned all of to their "original" forms when it was unleashed. I actually like this theory as it fits with the reincarnation aspect, and adds some consistancy.
The other senshi shouldn't have "All the power of every sailor senshu" anyway. That is an absolutely Cosmos Crystal strict thing, and something I was planning to fix soon anyway actually.
I can actually agree with you on this. We have evidence the Cosmos Crystal is what produced it, and that is the power that regenerated them. While we lack evidence that anybody other than ESM and Sailor Cosmos would be able to use it own their own. I agree the other senshi likely should not have it.
However.. They should receive an ability for being able to exist whole in the Galaxy Cauldron. I guess resistance to Existance Erasure would be likely?
And continuing on the speed, awesome. ESM and Sailor Cosmos actually already have it now along with their 2-C upgrade.
Thanks a lot. Both for the attention and the way you handled it. o/
If that's the case then I suppose we'll be solving this quite soundly, as I don't have anything else in mind. The feat is solid enough for the ESM and Cosmos, Chaos has a solid Mid-Godly overtime as well.
That's about all I had to discuss in regards to this particular feat, I suppose.
I might be re-reading what I still didn't of the series, in the near future so if something comes along, I'll ask you for confirmation before actually going full Galaxia mode on threads. Apologies on my end if that bothered anyone.
As for the scans, that's good. Since the Kodansha ones are the most reliable, then once this is settled should probably link the respective ones to the feats on the characters with Mid-Godly, so that this question gets a solidified answer and easier to solve if it comes up again in the future.
I posted all of the scans in question above. I hope they'll make things a bit more understandable.
Low 2-C Wiseman.. Almost happened because of the online version..
And you're welcome. I'm seriously just interested in getting Sailor Moon the accuracy and respect it needs. Its had a rough time in that regard.
If you do in fact reread the rest, I highly suggest the Kodansha release. Any other version is filled with differences that can turn entire feats into something else. Plus it'll give you the full Sailor Moon experience!
You're fine. Just understand that Sailor Moon is sort of, a touchy subject with some of its fans. Considering how much its bashed in the VS community, and its current OBD statistics..
I was all for Sailor Moon as a child because my sister loved it so much she wouldn't stop talking about it.
Actually seeing that the verse reached Cosmic Levels of power was a sweet surprise when I was around. The only problem I have at times (this was not just with Sailor Moon, I've had it way worse with other verses, while trying to settle down as time passes now) is when particular feats clash with some stuff I have.
Naturally I'll admit that there was some misunderstanding on my end as well mainly due to particular scans I had with me conflicting the info at certain points.
But yes, since the Kodansha one is the most accurate, I'll try to get that one if/when I get to that. Thanks for the advice!
Well, my ammount of problems with SM wasn't that big actually, mostly because when I started paying attention around here, I think many revisions were already underway or done (you were there for them, I believe). This one is likely the... Third time I'm having an extensive argument about it? And this one was solved so soundly I'm almost happy about it.
Frankly the verse I suffered the most with around here was fighting Pokemon. ovo
Sailor Moon has always just been a verse I was fascinated by. The story is interesting with its interpretation of the universe. And of course, I was a fan of the anime. owo Antvasima accepted profiles for those too. Maybe Multi-Universal Sailor Galaxia if some of the claims I remember about multiple space-time continuums turns out to be accurate?
I was around for a few, though there are still issues with the profiles as of right now. Some of them are currently unable to be changed due to a lack of calcs. But hey, all the more reason to learn how to do so.
Its a mistake anybody can make. I made a few myself, due to originally reading the online manga.
Well, like I said, the verse has yet to be really revised. Tbh, even if Matt attempted to do it. The online version would mess up so many things that we might never be able to fix them. Considering we'd have to argue with Kodansha against the version he read. So its understandable to have these complaints and I welcome the chance to argue over Sailor Moon. (Yeah, I'm a fanboy owo)
And I'm glad we reached a sensible conclusion. This seems like a very good thing to have been brought up.
I'm not familiar with the anime as of yet (old version never finished around here when I was a kid, and I've been short on time ever since to actually watch the new version. Don't know when or how I may actually watch it, really Dx).
But I do know that I loved characters like Mistress9. To the point where I linked this on my profile when I reached a certain number of edits, lol.
I suppose so, but I can tell that by comparison, they did seem to improve by a lot overtime and seem to be steadily going in a good direction. If all keep going at this pace, it will eventually have everything being accurate.
Thanks for the understanding. ^_^'
But yes, if Matt does read it, it may clash with the Kodansha one too as it did happen to me to a degree as well. Surprisingly, even in that case it's all in good spirits now that we settled it and nonetheless we weren't that far off from each other on our conclusions at the end.
And definitely it was. Thanks again for the attention and the talk!
Also I'm not entirely sure Chibi Moon actually runs/uses speed alone for time travelling. While I'm not particularly bothered by the speed stats of the series (and thus won't be arguing against it), you may want to bring about the scans and links to back that up when you add the stats to their profiles, as otherwise someone may question them in the future.
You could argue though that if Sailor Moon was continuously pouring power into them, then they might've kept some of it. But the thing is, we don't know if that was directly the Lambda Power or just energy after they were already regenerated that would allow them to exist in the cauldron. We also don't even know if they kept whatever she poured into them. Just that they were able to exist in the Galaxy Cauldron afterward.
Btw, should we add Existence Erasure to Sailor Moon's and Sailor Cosmos's profiles if they don't have it? They should also be able to exist in the galaxy cauldron.
Because SM already has resistance to Existence Erasure, IIRC.
As for the whole pouring energy it would be kinda stretching to assume they kept/gained whatever bonus ability from that and can keep using it forever as opposed to that just being used to keep them alive, as we usually get that "give me energy so I can recover" trope in a lot of series. Even in a (almost) haxless series like DBS we got something like that recently with Frieza sharing energy with Goku and all.
Yeah. I was just pointing those out as possible arguement for why they could have some of the Lambda power. The thing is, we just can't assume something like that since we already have limited knowledge on the Lambda power as it is, and then trying to say All of the Senshi have it hardly evidenced.
I'm mostly neutral on they getting Intangibility if there's some scan about that, but I'm not sure if others would go along with the reasoning since some characters are metaphysical to a degree or another or exist in some unnatural places and don't usually get that by default (people like Asriel Dreemur who erased a timeline and kept fighting there in the void also come to mind. Exdeath in the Void as well).
The Sailor Moon page is a complete mess. There are 8 different statistics columns, but only 6 explanation keys at the bottom, and it recurrently lacks proper justifications. For example, all of the collected energy of a universe only qualifies as Multi-Galaxy level. I would appreciate if you could fix it:
There seems to be issues with the Galaxia profile. For some reason things from her anime version are being used in her profile. Is this a composite? I'm just confused as to why these are added in her manga profile.
Unfortunately, attacks and certain forms from other versions of Sailor Moon have been added across possibly all the profiles.
The senshi have a wide variety of attacks in the canon as it is, and keeping up with them all is nearly impossible, so i will not make further edits to them in that area. It seems to be something that would be better handled in the revision.
So, after viewing all of the profiles, the verse just really seems to be in a mess right now, You're right. I'm not sure how these changes got made, but they really need to be revised soon.\
I want to list all of the main issues for reference, and possible things that can be done later on to improve the quality of the verse pages.
- Many profiles need to be upgraded to the current format
- The abilities and stats have issues, but thats what the revision will fix
- Sailor V is canon to the manga. So possible profiles for the Dark Agency could be added.
- Lots of not added profiles for villains
- Missing the Moon Cats, who do have some feats and are relevant enough characters
- Probably need to add weapon profiles, since there are some powerful weapons
- Lots of things added from different versions from Sailor Moon. These need to be removed, so they won't be confused for part of the canon.
- Anime profiles and Game profiles might need to be added at some point. There is a proven Multiversal character in one of the games. And the anime is an entirely different story, with the characters vastly changed.
- Lots of bad quality pictures
I understand this is.. alot. And obviously can't be done immediately, and some of this you might not think is neccessary. However, I am willing to help the best I can with several of these fixes. But I just wanted to list all the relevant issues I've seen.
I created a discussion page for Sailor Moon, since the last one was closed, this one would be a better place to speak on the issues of the verse while we wait for revisions to start. I hope you would participate.
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