"The last limit - the heart is a particle of the Creator itself , covered by the Layers of limitations, the last of which is self-consciousness, the individual personality. This explains the indestructibility of the spirit, as well as the fact that although the Domain of People contains a hierarchy of worlds where the superior transcends the subordinate just as reality surpasses fiction, the spiritual mind of the creatures living there is the only thing that is essentially the same regardless of position. At least, the evolution to the essence of the higher Domain will require the same spiritual development, from whatever part of the hierarchy it starts."
It does not say about any protection from God. Only about the fundamental nature of the heart.
Approaching the Creator is not an acquisition of power, it is a loss of limitations. And personality is lost only at the very end, that is, this is the last thing that separates the fundamental essence from the divine nature.
Heart is the source of love and the repository of personality.
Roughly speaking, any soul is the Creator and restrictions. If you remove the restrictions, then only the Creator will remain. What is the internal evolution.
Everyone is part of the creator? So this is why everyone can become the creator. Limitlessness is locked inside of everyones limitations. When they lose these limitations they become so unrestricted they crash and crumble like mist.
Would you say the creators soul represents the indestructibility of the spirit, aswell as the ability to revive in oblivion whenever they want?
1) This is Solomon, not Zennon. Although he has such a form.
2) These are not the most reliable page now.
3) If you create a page here, then you should look for information in the original source, and not on some wiki-fandoms.
As far as I remember, the reason was that it was said in the raws that for Solomon the whole creation of God and God himself are like a fiction. And there were statements about the multidimensionality of hell or something like that.
So now that i have a bunch of information regarding the higher ups and the god tiers of umineko, im wondering what i can do with the pieces from the start of the story, are these pieces above the human domains concepts aswell? If so ill just rate them at 1-A and leave it at that
Any info you have regarding pieces would be appreciated
Difficult to differentiate, at least. Except for 1-A Voyagers, everything else is very vague. The ratio of spiritual beings works for some internal mechanics. The soul is a very high concept that is associated with personal world and observation, which gives shape to the whole of kakera from the inside. But the direct influence on the physical world of most creatures is very limited, although they are very abstract. Technically, we can get that Beatrice in her best form is remotely comparable to Voyagers in some characteristics. But everything is far more vague if we talk about demons, angels, youkai, ghosts and weaker witches.
At least personally, I still can not determine their tier except as unknown or indeterminable. And I don’t have time to think about it now.
True forms are not bodies. That's all. This is not a witch in dresses or something like that. Not even metaphorically. True forms are worlds, their laws and the most fundamental parts of the soul and essences of nothingness.
Aurora from Rewrite isn't true form of Featherine. It can only be a local part of its nature. Explanation of 1-A for Voyagers avatars in the human domain given for their influence on the whole structure. In that story, it was only a local system of life/existence that does not go beyond the Shinra Bansho/story world.
There are 3 known hierarchical domains, but the supernatural part of the human domain is also called the night domain (夜の領域 YORU NO RYŌIKI). But this is something like a shadow/reflection of the human world and they exist in the same hierarchy. That's why i said "3/4 domains".
Oh that also reminds me, if you approve of the voyagers first key (Manifestation) as being omnipresent due to their manifestations alone still existing across all of the sea of fragments and governing over them
Xaintxeiya wrote: Whenever you get the chance, no rush. Id be interested in seeing the explanation for the human domain being 1-A
DarkLK wrote: Key 1 (Relative characteristics/Human Domain manifestation/piece): has control over miracles, the metaphysical power that underlies the existence of the world/Shinra Bansho, which in addition to the three-dimensional universe includes a far higher dimensions, complex quantum structures, wave functions, as well as unimaginable realms out of all time, space/place and coordinates/dimensions, and beyond it there are transcendental coneptual hierarchy, where higher concepts cannot be defined in terms of infinity and everything listed below, and at the peak of existence and intellect disappears even the meaning of steps which determine perspectives of everything that was below
Their manifestations are not omnipresent.
Hoto, they may just be larger than many omnipresent characters on the wiki. That is, those that are omnipresent within the universe or some small cosmology.
Now that im thinking about it. If the former is correct (regarding my explanation the human domain being above 1-A)
Or was i wrong and the very peak of the human domain is 1-A? Not the inside?
If the former is correct then how would a single step or "layer" be greater than the difference between dimensionally limited objects and objects that surpass dimensions when the human domain already transcends coordinates and dimensions?
if the human domain already surpasses dimensions and our hero has surpassed that concept. Then how would dimensionally limited objects be part of the step?
And finally, i believe i see a contradiction, howcome our hero states "that was only one step" before he reaches the peak?
They are not talking about manifestations. Manifestations can disperse in different directions and have an insignificant probability to meet again.
I have already explained all this before. This is not peak of the domain. This is the peak of conceptualization within this domain.
Each layer in this domain has the same. The same concepts work in the worlds, but these worlds are still different as reality and fiction. These are relative things. Inside each layer.
Just forget about the layers. There is no travel between them in the human domain. Ordinary people and the peak of all things are all taken up inside the world of one layer. Even without taking into account the hierarchy of reality and fiction, you will get the difference between coordinate and beyond coordinate things within the same layer.
The steps he talked about are raising the level of human intelligence. This is the internal hierarchy of the complexity of the current world, it is not layers.
The peak of all things is the limit of what humans can understand and comprehend not the limit of the human domain which encompasses infinite worlds that transcend all space and time and even more than this
one layer is outerversal, but the way the domain is designed that a world that views this outerversal world as fiction also uses the same concepts as that lower layer and each lower layer still uses the concept of dimensions aswell as vice versa
Layers are sort of irrelevant when talking about humans because humans cant travel throughout layers like witches can
are you using the words "worlds" and "layer" interchangeably?
and i think something thatll help me out here, what is the very bottom of the witch domain? what realm is shown when a character surpasses humans and goes to the higher level. i believe that can help me with a characters placement
The world and the layer are not exactly the same, as there may be many worlds in one layer, but usually I use the world in the sense of "story within a layer". In fact, there may be many different contexts for "world".
The very bottom of the witch domain... This is when human conceptualization is not possible in any form. That is, it does not matter how high a human being is in the hierarchy of the understanding of the Shinra Bansho (even at the peak) and it does not matter that you exponential even the concepts of a peak in the hierarchy of reality and fiction. Higher domain just completely beyond this. And this is not just a more incomprehensible level. No human being can survive in the higher domain. The spirit, the essence will just be lost.
I'm getting good work on it done, I just wanna make a thread here to share what I've gotten so far to see if there's anything else I should pick up or if things could be worded better. I also have some questions; about the specific implications of certain things and some translations for some of the untranslated text you shared.
I'll share things when you get back to me. Thanks.
The indefinite Wave Function is only an explanation of how contradictory possibilities of the events of the human world can coexist simultaneously. This is not some kind of thing beyond the Human Domain. This is part of the internal structure of the box on the island. The boxes themselves exist everywhere and always, this is a general principle of uncertainty and coexistence of possibilities.
>difference between finite dimensions and infinite dimensions
More like "difference between dimensional things and beyond dimensional ones". You have things that cannot be expressed by coordinates.
Just the whole World. Not "umineko". That is, they themselves use the term "umineko" to mark only one of the stories and nothing else. One of the stories that they can visit and in which they can freely interfere. It was in a crossover where Bern jumbled different stories together, moving characters from Umineko/Higanbana/RGD/Higurashi into the worlds of other stories.
Also, catboxes represent infinite possibilities and impossibilities both existing, and exist everywhere within the human domain? Like every layer? Could i ask for evidence of their sort of like omnipresence across the human domain?
Are catboxes higher than, or below the peak of all things?
Besides, this is probably acceptable. But I create profiles a little differently (a detailed description of things and contexts) so it’s hard for me to accurately assess.
Boxes are not some tier of cosmology or something like that. It is simply the principle of coexistence of possibilities in uncertainty.
This is lower than the peak if we consider the possibilities of things that are lower than the peak. And this is higher than the peak, if we consider the possibilities of things that are higher than the peak. That's all.
Even the simplest things like dice are uncertainties in a box.