All credit goes to Jeremy Gardner.

The purpose of humankind - the first intelligence of all - had been to reshape the universe in order to bud others and create a storm of mind. We got it wrong, he thought. By striving for a meaningless eternity, humans denied true infinity. But we reached back, back in time, back to the far upstream, and spoke to our last children - the maligned Blues - and we put it right. This is what it meant to be alone in the universe, to be the first. We had all of infinite time and space in our hands. We had ultimate responsibility. And we discharged it. We were parents of the universe, not its children.
~ A quote from Manifold: Time


The Downstreamers, also known as the Old Ones after the collapse of their multiverse, are a hyper-posthuman civilization. Born in the "primal universe," they are the first and oldest race in Manifold Trilogy, and are in fact the creators of said Manifolds and the descendants of humanity in a sense. They survived the heat death of their universe, seeking to expand their possibilities in regard to the creation of life, and so reached back in time to send messages to the 21st century, telling their ancestors, the "maligned Blues," of their plans to restructure the Manifoldverse.

Powers and Stats

Tier: 3-A to High 1-C | At least High 1-B

Civilization Tier: Transcendent Civilization

Name: Downstreamers, Old Ones, Ancestors of the Afterglow

Origin: The Manifold Trilogy (by Stephen Baxter)

Gender: Varies, possibly Unknown

Age: More than 10^117 years old | Inapplicable

Classification: Hyperadvanced posthuman civilization, neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational beings | Abstract existence

Kardashev Level: Type VII

Population: Unknown

Territory: The entirety of existence

Powers and Abilities: Acausality, Abstract Existence, Higher-Dimensional Manipulation, Regeneration (High-Godly, possibly higher. Can even ‘regenerate’ into a more effective and powerful form after their neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational form was destroyed in the Manifoldverse’s total collapse), Time Manipulation, Immortality (Type 1 & possibly 4 for Post-FVC form), Causality Manipulation (They transcend causality and could alter causality on multiversal scale), Omniscience, Invulnerability, Conceptual Manipulation as the Old Ones (Created and transcended an "ultimate reality" which contains the crux of all logical concepts), Matter Manipulation, Physics Manipulation, Spaceflight, Teleportation, Non-Corporeal, Probability Manipulation, Creation, Quantum Manipulation, Portal Creation, Time Travel, Mathematics Manipulation, Reality Warping

Attack Potency: Universe level (Can effortlessly create abstract material with their thoughts which can withstand the combined energy of a thousand big bangs per second. Similarly, they possess weapons capable of carving giant maws on a construct which is noted to be trillions of times bigger than our current observable universe.) to High Complex Multiverse level (Capable of altering the fabric of time in thousands of universes, including at least one 11-dimensional M-Theory universe.) | At least High Hyperverse level (The Old Ones' capability, which includes the effortless manipulation of the fabric of existence, is nearly boundless, and they are capable of creating infinitely-layered multiverses that contain an equally infinite number of multiverses within them. The Manifoldverse itself consists of an infinite hierarchy of infinite multiverses. The Old Ones themselves exist at the top of this endless hierarchy, far beyond the applications of normal space and time, and may be one with an "Ultimate Manifold", that encompasses all other manifolds in the tapestry of existence. Superior to all physical laws as they can be described, they have a near complete understanding of existence itself, allowing them to modify a few rules governing how the entirety of the verse works, such as likely changing the type of the multiverse, which enables them to create "infinite possibilities for life and mind".)

Power Source: The entirety of existence

Industrial Capacity: Irrelevant

Military Prowess: Irrelevant

Notable Individuals: The "Goddess" of the Manifold

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Their non-corporeal forms include a Causal Loop computer that essentially make them know things before they happen, and they also possess FTL ships with which to transport lesser races.) | At least Immeasurable (Created the Red Moon, a construct that could travel through an infinite amount of possible universes within a finite scope of time through the use of phase-space engineering. Capable of easily changing the constants of reality to be able to travel in ways that cannot be described by human language, and may transcend the concept of movement itself)

Lifting Strength: Unknown | At least Immeasurable

Striking Strength: Unknown | At least High Hyperversal

Durability: Universe level (Some Downstreamers, who don’t come from the "Time of Afterglow," are born from naked singularities. They are capable of surviving even when exposed to such a naked singularity at close proximity. They can produce material strictly from their thoughts that can withstand the combined force of a thousand big bangs per second; said material is completely immune to any change in the laws of physics. The Downstreamers as a whole were also fully capable of surviving the heat-death of a universe, though it is unknown to what degree they were weakened as a result of this.) Likely High Hyperverse level (Individual Pre-FVC Downstreamers are intangible neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational beings, which could survive the collapse of an infinitely-layered reality.) | At least High Hyperverse level (Reached a new level of existence, which was vastly superior to its previous incarnation, transcending the whole of known reality and the "infinite ensemble," of possible multiverses that arranged due to the Manifold's expansion)

Stamina: Unknown | Limitless

Range: Interstellar (Pre-FVC Downstreamers are described to be a "light-year wide," in size) to High Complex Multiversal (Capable of enacting time-line alteration on at least 1000 non-causally connected universes, and could set up Time Portals made of physics-warping material at will in at least 1000 universes) to High Hyperversal (They have access to the whole Manifoldverse) | At least High Hyperversal (Capable of controlling and initiating cosmic inflation across the multiverse, in which universes are described as "mere bubbles of foam on an ocean". The Old Ones exist in the “ultimate manifold”, on top of an endless hierarchy that encompasses all other manifolds in the tapestry of existence)

Standard Equipment: None notable

Intelligence: Omniscient (Know how every possible event in the universe will unfold down to the quantum level. Their "brains," are Causal Loop computers, a device which grants them infinite thinking and processing power.) | Omniscient (The Old Ones exist at the top of endless hierarchies of infinity, and are able to comprehend the "ultimate manifold" that encompasses all other manifolds in the tapestry of existence.)

Weaknesses: Dependent on energy (Mainly from Black Holes). If they are present in a universe approaching heat death, their abilities take significantly longer to use, as they cannot collapse any black holes to sustain their abilities and technology. | None notable


  • Red Moon: A moon-sized construct that wanders through the Manifoldverse, transporting humans from different universes to empty ones. It can travel to infinite number of universes in a finite amount of time through use of phase space (higher-dimensional engineering). It can also affect probability through quantum tunneling.
  • Refugium: A universe-sized construct built around cosmic strings, which is created as a shelter of sorts to all different kinds of organisms. All sections have bubbles which are tailored to suit all kind of organisms’ needs.
  • Planetarium: A simulation system whose purpose is to project a generated reality surrounding the solar system, which is undetectable by any means. It is a perfect simulation down to the quantum level, requiring more energy than a galaxy. It’s implied that this was just another experiment of the Downstreamers, resolving the Fermi Paradox in a certain universe by creating this false reality to protect humanity.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

  • Time Portals: Pre-FVC Downstreamers can materialize material of molded space-time out of their thoughts at will. The material can be used to time travel and for defensive purposes (It can withstand the force of thousand Big Bangs instantaneously, and is still intact even past the heat death of the universe. It can also deploy a field around selected areas which allow the Downstreamers to freely change the laws of physics inside it.)
  • Unreality Wave: Mixes all different possible states of a universe from phase space until the universe is completely destroyed.
  • Time-line Alteration: Allows the Pre-FVC Downstreamers to change time-lines of at least 1000 different non-causally connected universes at the same time.
  • Transcendence: A transformation which allows the Downstreamers to transcend an infinitely-layered infinite multiverse after their Non-Corporeal form (Which was a neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational body) was destroyed in the complete multiversal collapse. This form transcends all known existence.)
  • Cosmic Inflation: Produces seeds which grow into countless universes. These universes are compared to bubbles in foam floating on an ocean.
  • Existence Manipulation: The Old Ones can effortlessly change the rules of the entire Manifoldverse, allowing them to create infinite possibilities for both life and mind.

Key: Downstreamers | Old Ones

  • Note:  While the Downstreamers possibly live in a Type IV Tegmark Multiverse, the books are too vague to make an accurate assessment regarding the nature of the Downstreamers' existence. Coupled with the general lack of mention of dimensions within the books, "At least High 1-B" remains a safe low-end.


Notable Victories:

Time Lords (Doctor Who) Time Lords Profile (Note: This was Pre-FVC Downstreamers)

Notable Losses:

Inconclusive Matches:

Start a Discussion Discussions about Downstreamers